'I wish we'd uncovered evidence of Horizon's faults'
Beer is pressing van den Bogerd on her reasons for leaving the Post Office.
She says her reasons for leaving were unrelated to the on-going High Court case which saw hundreds of sub-postmasters convictions overturned.
When asked whether the judgement impacted her, she says its extent came as a "surprise" and the Post Office's own investigation hadn't revealed any evidence that Horizon was faulty.
"I wish we had uncovered it, evidence wasn't there to support it."
Van den Bogerd then blamed IT contractor Fujitsu, saying it was their system, and their expert that the Post Office had paid for to investigate the software's issues.
Watch: I am truly sorry, says van den Bogerd
As this morning's session at the Post Office Inquiry began, Angela van den Bogerd read an apology to those affected by the Horizon IT system scandal.
Watch the clip below to to hear what she said.
Video content
Video caption: Watch: Van den Bogerd says she is sorry for the "devastation caused".Watch: Van den Bogerd says she is sorry for the "devastation caused".
'I wasn't a regular attender of the board'
Angela van den Bogerd accepts she had extensive contact with sub-postmasters and had an understanding of their role, as well as living through the implementation of the Horizon IT system programme.
Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asks van den Bogerd about her reporting line, pressing on whether she had direct access to the Post Office's board.
She says that through the length of her career she probably attended Post Office board meetings between 10 and 20 times.
"I wasn't a regular attender of the board," she tells the inquiry, adding that she would have updated it infrequently.
Van den Bogerd raised issues through line managers
The inquiry is hearing van den Bogerd's history at the Post Office.
She started at the Post Office in 1985 and rose through the ranks, holding several managerial roles until 2020.
During her time at the organisation, she was present for the rollout of Horizon, subsequent investigations, and the prosecution of sub-postmasters - but she was unfamiliar with the impact programme.
Jason Beer KC then asks about the organisation's hierarchy and van den Bogerd's managerial experience and whether it was her responsibility to raise issues.
Van der Bogerd says yes but stresses she went through line managers when reporting to the board.
She says she did not regularly attend board meetings.
Breaking'I am truly sorry' - Van den Bogerd
Post Office InquiryCopyright: Post Office Inquiry
Van den Bogerd apologises to former sub-postmasters and postmistresses.
"I am truly, truly sorry for the devastation caused to you, your family and friends," she tells the inquiry.
Van den Bogerd sworn in
Post Office InquiryCopyright: Post Office Inquiry
Angela van den Bogerd is sworn in to the Post Office inquiry.
She'll be asked questions by Jason Beer KC, counsel to the inquiry.
Angela van den Bogerd to give evidence
The inquiry is starting now.
Stay with us as we bring you the best news lines to come out of van den Bogerd's evidence.
You can watch proceedings live by pressing the large Play button at the top of this page.
For many sub-postmasters this is the biggest moment for the inquiry so far
Emma Simpson
Business correspondent
Angela van den Bogerd is described as the executive who knew more about Horizon than anyone else.
She was personally involved in many cases and oversaw complaints from sub-postmasters.
She was also heavily involved in the mediation scheme supposed to help victims, but which later collapsed.
When former sub-postmaster Alan Bates took on the Post Office in his epic legal action, van den Bogerd was its most important witness.
The Post Office lost, with the judge scathing about her evidence including how she'd misled the court.
There are many more questions to answer now, given what's emerging about the decisions made and what many increasingly believe is a massive cover up to protect the Post Office brand and its faulty IT system which was simply too big and important to fail.
You'll be hard pushed to find an empty seat in the inquiry room today.
Watch: Angela van der Bogerd arrives at inquiry
Angela van der Bogerd faced questions from journalists upon her arrival at the Post Office inquiry this morning, but soon we'll soon be hearing from the former Post Office boss herself.
Watch the moment she arrived below:
Video content
Video caption: Angela van der Bogerd faces questions from journalists on arrival at Post Office inquiry.Angela van der Bogerd faces questions from journalists on arrival at Post Office inquiry.
Post Office scandal broke me, says ex-sub-postmaster
BBCCopyright: BBC
A large contingent of sub-postmasters have turned up to hear Angela van den Bogerd’s evidence at the inquiry today, including Parmod Kalia.
Parmod, a former Postmaster in Orpington, was given a six month prison sentence in 2001 after being falsely accused of stealing £22,000. His conviction was overturned in 2021.
In 2015, he wrote a letter to Post Office boss Paula Vennells asking her to reinvestigate his case. Angela van den Bogerd replied on her behalf, and Parmod described how he "broke down" when he read her response.
“Looking at the letter, she is clearly saying the Horizon system has been tried and tested, there’s nothing wrong with it. It’s robust. She’s still saying that in 2015, despite everything that’s happened already," he tells the BBC.
But it was the final paragraph of the letter that upset Parmod the most.
“She basically said, ‘if you feel there’s been a miscarriage of justice, get a solicitor and come and see us in court’”, he said.
“It knocked me back at the time. I literally collapsed on the floor."
He says van den Bogerd’s appearance is the biggest moment of the inquiry for him so far.
“I’m going to the inquiry with a view to possibly seeing any remote, smallest chance of any remorse that she may have.
“I need to know. Has she finally understood and accepted where she was wrong? And maybe put her hands up and say ‘yeah, sorry’. That would mean a lot to us”.
How was the Horizon system faulty?
What actually went wrong with the Horizon IT system?
It is the responsibility of those running Post Office branches to balance their accounts, which had previously been done on paper, but in 1999, Fujitsu's Horizon was introduced.
Almost immediately there was an increase in the number of staff experiencing accounting shortfalls which they could not explain.
Jo Hamilton, a former sub-postmistress from South Warnborough, Hampshire, who was convicted of fraud, says she saw the amount" double before her eyes" while using the software.
Josephine said at first the Horizon system showed there was £2,000 missing. She then contacted the Post Office support, who advised her, but after following their instructions, the amount doubled to £4,000.
Many reported that the Horizon system made it look like money was missing when it wasn't.
Jason Coyne, an IT expert, was instructed to examine the computer system in 2003 and reported "concerning discrepancies".
Coyne said there "was clearly defective elements of its hardware, software and interfaces, and the majority of errors noticed in the fault logs could not be attributed to the sub-postmaster".
Coyne said the Post Office data was "unreliable" but he was ignored, sacked, and then discredited.
What did the inquiry hear on Wednesday?
On Wednesday, the inquiry heard from Chris Aujard. Here are some of the main lines from the former Post Office lawyer’s testimony:
Aujard said former Post Office chief executive Paula Vennells opposed pausing the prosecution of sub-postmasters while problems with the Horizon system were being investigated
There was a lot of focus on a briefing of a report by Deloitte in 2014 into Horizon, handed to members of the Post Office board
Aujard admitted today that disclosure of this report could have been "handled differently"
He said it was "far too abridged", having faced pressure from Vennells to get it out "quickly"
Later, documents revealed how Post Office executives recommended the termination of an independent review into the prosecution of sub-postmasters before it finished its work
Video caption: Watch: Chris Aujard hopes his evidence will prevent similar scandals 'ever happening again'Watch: Chris Aujard hopes his evidence will prevent similar scandals 'ever happening again'
Separating fact from fiction
Peter Ruddick
Business reporter
Angela van den Bogerd's appearance today is keenly anticipated.
Partly because of her TV portrayal - she was played by Katherine Kelly in ITV drama Mr Bates vs the Post Office.
But lawyers will want to separate fact from fiction.
Her evidence will be over two days because she was at the Post Office so long.
From 1985-2020. She has also been mentioned lots by others at the inquiry.
Way back in 2003, she reportedly sat in a sub-postmaster's lounge after his first issue with Horizon.
Over a cuppa, she apparently told him if he paid £3,000, she would forget the other £3,000 he supposedly owed.
Then, a decade and a half later, she reportedly called another sub-postmaster querying discrepancies to say: "The money doesn’t have legs, it can’t run away; so, where has the money gone?"
Two nuggets from hours of testimony that show just how much Angela Van Den Bogerd's tenure bookmarks this scandal.
Who Is Angela van den Bogerd?
ShutterstockCopyright: Shutterstock
Angela van den Bogerd was at the Post Office a long time.
She joined the organisation in 1985 - when she worked at branch level
From 2006-2009, having worked her way up, she was a manager in charge of new services offered in the Post Office
From 2009-2012 she was head of network services - dealing with branch relocations, closures, financial services and compliance audits
She then became head of partnerships, when it was her job to liaise with unions
As programme director for the branch support programme (2013-2015), she was responsible for improving operations, including in-branch transactions
Then as director of support services (2015-2016), she was responsible for the sub-postmaster helpline and various other teams, including contract advisors
From 2017-2018, she was the people & change director, responsible for any business transformation projects
January-July 2018 she was people services director, responsible for HR
She left in 2020 after finally working as the business improvement director
Angela van den Bogerd arrives at inquiry
BBCCopyright: BBC
Angela van den Bogerd arrives at Post Office inquiry.Image caption: Angela van den Bogerd arrives at Post Office inquiry.
Van den Bogerd, who we will be hearing from at the Post Office inquiry throughout the day, has arrived at Aldwych House.
She will be facing questions from the inquiry counsel across two days.
Stick with us as we bring you the latest lines.
Hello and welcome
Thanks for joining us as we prepare to bring you another day of proceedings at the Post Office inquiry.
Today we are going to hear from Angela van den Bogerd, former Post Office People Services Director and Programme Director for the Branch Support Programme.
Because she was at the Post Office for 35 years, her evidence is going to take two days.
Today’s session is expected to begin at 09:45 BST.
So stay with us as we bring you all the latest lines and analysis, and you can always watch the proceedings live by pressing Play at the top of the page.
Live Reporting
Edited by Sam Hancock and Andrew Humphrey
All times stated are UK
'I wish we'd uncovered evidence of Horizon's faults'
Beer is pressing van den Bogerd on her reasons for leaving the Post Office.
She says her reasons for leaving were unrelated to the on-going High Court case which saw hundreds of sub-postmasters convictions overturned.
When asked whether the judgement impacted her, she says its extent came as a "surprise" and the Post Office's own investigation hadn't revealed any evidence that Horizon was faulty.
"I wish we had uncovered it, evidence wasn't there to support it."
Van den Bogerd then blamed IT contractor Fujitsu, saying it was their system, and their expert that the Post Office had paid for to investigate the software's issues.
Watch: I am truly sorry, says van den Bogerd
As this morning's session at the Post Office Inquiry began, Angela van den Bogerd read an apology to those affected by the Horizon IT system scandal.
Watch the clip below to to hear what she said.
Video content
'I wasn't a regular attender of the board'
Angela van den Bogerd accepts she had extensive contact with sub-postmasters and had an understanding of their role, as well as living through the implementation of the Horizon IT system programme.
Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asks van den Bogerd about her reporting line, pressing on whether she had direct access to the Post Office's board.
She says that through the length of her career she probably attended Post Office board meetings between 10 and 20 times.
"I wasn't a regular attender of the board," she tells the inquiry, adding that she would have updated it infrequently.
Van den Bogerd raised issues through line managers
The inquiry is hearing van den Bogerd's history at the Post Office.
She started at the Post Office in 1985 and rose through the ranks, holding several managerial roles until 2020.
During her time at the organisation, she was present for the rollout of Horizon, subsequent investigations, and the prosecution of sub-postmasters - but she was unfamiliar with the impact programme.
Jason Beer KC then asks about the organisation's hierarchy and van den Bogerd's managerial experience and whether it was her responsibility to raise issues.
Van der Bogerd says yes but stresses she went through line managers when reporting to the board.
She says she did not regularly attend board meetings.
Breaking'I am truly sorry' - Van den Bogerd
Van den Bogerd apologises to former sub-postmasters and postmistresses.
"I am truly, truly sorry for the devastation caused to you, your family and friends," she tells the inquiry.
Van den Bogerd sworn in
Angela van den Bogerd is sworn in to the Post Office inquiry.
She'll be asked questions by Jason Beer KC, counsel to the inquiry.
Angela van den Bogerd to give evidence
The inquiry is starting now.
Stay with us as we bring you the best news lines to come out of van den Bogerd's evidence.
You can watch proceedings live by pressing the large Play button at the top of this page.
For many sub-postmasters this is the biggest moment for the inquiry so far
Emma Simpson
Business correspondent
Angela van den Bogerd is described as the executive who knew more about Horizon than anyone else.
She was personally involved in many cases and oversaw complaints from sub-postmasters.
She was also heavily involved in the mediation scheme supposed to help victims, but which later collapsed.
When former sub-postmaster Alan Bates took on the Post Office in his epic legal action, van den Bogerd was its most important witness.
The Post Office lost, with the judge scathing about her evidence including how she'd misled the court.
There are many more questions to answer now, given what's emerging about the decisions made and what many increasingly believe is a massive cover up to protect the Post Office brand and its faulty IT system which was simply too big and important to fail.
You'll be hard pushed to find an empty seat in the inquiry room today.
Watch: Angela van der Bogerd arrives at inquiry
Angela van der Bogerd faced questions from journalists upon her arrival at the Post Office inquiry this morning, but soon we'll soon be hearing from the former Post Office boss herself.
Watch the moment she arrived below:
Video content
Post Office scandal broke me, says ex-sub-postmaster
A large contingent of sub-postmasters have turned up to hear Angela van den Bogerd’s evidence at the inquiry today, including Parmod Kalia.
Parmod, a former Postmaster in Orpington, was given a six month prison sentence in 2001 after being falsely accused of stealing £22,000. His conviction was overturned in 2021.
In 2015, he wrote a letter to Post Office boss Paula Vennells asking her to reinvestigate his case. Angela van den Bogerd replied on her behalf, and Parmod described how he "broke down" when he read her response.
“Looking at the letter, she is clearly saying the Horizon system has been tried and tested, there’s nothing wrong with it. It’s robust. She’s still saying that in 2015, despite everything that’s happened already," he tells the BBC.
But it was the final paragraph of the letter that upset Parmod the most.
“She basically said, ‘if you feel there’s been a miscarriage of justice, get a solicitor and come and see us in court’”, he said.
“It knocked me back at the time. I literally collapsed on the floor."
He says van den Bogerd’s appearance is the biggest moment of the inquiry for him so far.
“I’m going to the inquiry with a view to possibly seeing any remote, smallest chance of any remorse that she may have.
“I need to know. Has she finally understood and accepted where she was wrong? And maybe put her hands up and say ‘yeah, sorry’. That would mean a lot to us”.
How was the Horizon system faulty?
What actually went wrong with the Horizon IT system?
It is the responsibility of those running Post Office branches to balance their accounts, which had previously been done on paper, but in 1999, Fujitsu's Horizon was introduced.
Almost immediately there was an increase in the number of staff experiencing accounting shortfalls which they could not explain.
Jo Hamilton, a former sub-postmistress from South Warnborough, Hampshire, who was convicted of fraud, says she saw the amount" double before her eyes" while using the software.
Josephine said at first the Horizon system showed there was £2,000 missing. She then contacted the Post Office support, who advised her, but after following their instructions, the amount doubled to £4,000.
Many reported that the Horizon system made it look like money was missing when it wasn't.
Jason Coyne, an IT expert, was instructed to examine the computer system in 2003 and reported "concerning discrepancies".
Coyne said there "was clearly defective elements of its hardware, software and interfaces, and the majority of errors noticed in the fault logs could not be attributed to the sub-postmaster".
Coyne said the Post Office data was "unreliable" but he was ignored, sacked, and then discredited.
What did the inquiry hear on Wednesday?
On Wednesday, the inquiry heard from Chris Aujard. Here are some of the main lines from the former Post Office lawyer’s testimony:
Read more about yesterday’s revelations here.
Video content
Separating fact from fiction
Peter Ruddick
Business reporter
Angela van den Bogerd's appearance today is keenly anticipated.
Partly because of her TV portrayal - she was played by Katherine Kelly in ITV drama Mr Bates vs the Post Office.
But lawyers will want to separate fact from fiction.
Her evidence will be over two days because she was at the Post Office so long.
From 1985-2020. She has also been mentioned lots by others at the inquiry.
Way back in 2003, she reportedly sat in a sub-postmaster's lounge after his first issue with Horizon.
Over a cuppa, she apparently told him if he paid £3,000, she would forget the other £3,000 he supposedly owed.
Then, a decade and a half later, she reportedly called another sub-postmaster querying discrepancies to say: "The money doesn’t have legs, it can’t run away; so, where has the money gone?"
Two nuggets from hours of testimony that show just how much Angela Van Den Bogerd's tenure bookmarks this scandal.
Who Is Angela van den Bogerd?
Angela van den Bogerd was at the Post Office a long time.
Angela van den Bogerd arrives at inquiry
Van den Bogerd, who we will be hearing from at the Post Office inquiry throughout the day, has arrived at Aldwych House.
She will be facing questions from the inquiry counsel across two days.
Stick with us as we bring you the latest lines.
Hello and welcome
Thanks for joining us as we prepare to bring you another day of proceedings at the Post Office inquiry.
Today we are going to hear from Angela van den Bogerd, former Post Office People Services Director and Programme Director for the Branch Support Programme.
Because she was at the Post Office for 35 years, her evidence is going to take two days.
Today’s session is expected to begin at 09:45 BST.
So stay with us as we bring you all the latest lines and analysis, and you can always watch the proceedings live by pressing Play at the top of the page.