Messages about children a 'fantasy', jury told

The trial is taking place at Guildford Crown Court

The founder of an LGBTQ+ group said his alleged conversations about kidnapping and sexually assaulting children were "fantasy" and "taboo", a trial has heard.

Stephen Ireland, 40, who co-founded Pride in Surrey in 2018, and David Sutton, 27, a volunteer with the organisation, are accused of "targeting children for their sexual proclivities" between 2022 and 2024, prosecutors say.

They are charged with a total of 38 offences between them, including conspiring to sexually assault children, arranging the commission of child sex offences and kidnap - all of which they have denied.

Mr Ireland, who gave talks in schools, told Guildford Crown Court on Tuesday that there were "no actual plans to do anything".

The defendant said: "Me and [Mr Sutton] were smoking too much and your thoughts run away with a fantasy taboo chat."

Alex Krikler, defending Mr Ireland, asked about WhatsApp messages from 2022, during which the pair allegedly spoke of "snatching" or "kidnapping" a child.

Prosecutor Isabel Delamere previously said the conversations were beyond fantasy and jurors were told that the pair discussed targeting children outside school gates while pretending to be a talent coach or music manager and how to avoid CCTV.

Mr Ireland said: "It's a fake taboo chat between David and I."

He told jurors that he visited schools to give talks about the LGBTQ+ community in a "professional" capacity with staff present and that he had no intention of doing anything unlawful.

'Regret'

Mr Ireland also spoke of his "regret" over messaging about sexually abusing two children, including a girl aged six, saying they were "stupid conversations" and that nothing happened.

He is solely charged with 21 of the 38 offences, including one count of raping a child, three counts of causing a child under 13 to engage in sexual activity, and one count of sexual assault on a child.

The defendants are jointly charged with 13 offences, including six counts of conspiracy to sexually assault a child, three counts of arranging the commission of a child sex offence and one count of conspiracy to kidnap a child.

Mr Sutton is also charged with another four offences, including three counts of making indecent photographs of children.

The trial continues.