Irish government has put up 'artificial barrier' to united Ireland poll

Varadkar says a poll should be pursued even though "there will always be people who are not reconciled"

The former Taoiseach (Irish Prime Minister) Leo Varadkar has accused the Irish government of putting up an "artificial barrier" to a referendum on a united Ireland.

Varadkar said Dublin needed to begin planning for a border poll.

He claimed the current Taoiseach Micheál Martin was not prepared to push forward with that work until there was "total reconciliation" across the island - something which his predecessor said may never be possible.

"This is where I differ with Micheál Martin," said Leo Varadkar.

"There will always be people who are not reconciled for one reason or another but that doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue it," he told the BBC's new Borderland podcast.

"I don't think we should put up an artificial barrier towards a border poll."

Meanwhile Varadkar added that he does agree with Martin that "it is not yet the right time to set a date for a border poll".

Murders justified

In Borderland – UK or United Ireland? former DUP MP Ian Paisley and former Sinn Féin MP Michelle Gildernew examine the case for a border poll and what a united Ireland could look like.

While the focus is on Northern Ireland's future, the divides of the past hang over many of the discussions.

At one stage during a heated conversation Gildernew says she believes there was a justification for murders during the Troubles.

When initially asked about IRA violence she says: "I wish it had have been avoided but the British army brought a war to our streets."

However when pushed on the subject both she and loyalist activist Jamie Bryson explicitly say that they believe murders were justified.

Paisley says he is yet to hear a persuasive argument for a border poll

Warning: This article contains language which some may find offensive

The first two episodes investigate the importance of identity in Northern Ireland and see the two former politicians visit an Irish language class and a loyalist band practice.

Cultural differences over issues like language and unionist parades have caused a series of disputes at the power-sharing Government at Stormont.

Paisley says there are people who are fuelling a damaging "culture war".

"There are idiots on my side of the tribe who will be provocative just as there are idiots on Michelle's side of the tribe who will try to be provocative with culture," he said.

However the pair clash numerous times over their different perceptions of the UK and Ireland, with Gildernew at one stage describing the six counties of Northern Ireland as "a shithole".

Border poll is 'an entitlement'

A border poll can only be called when the Northern Ireland Secretary believes there is support for constitutional change and recent polling suggests that a clear majority of people would still vote to remain in the UK.

Nationalist campaigners argue the gap is narrowing and Gildernew believes that opinion should be tested.

"It is within the Good Friday Agreement which a majority of people on the island of Ireland voted for.

"It's an entitlement," she adds.

Paisley is a committed unionist however during the podcast he tells unity campaigner Colin Harvey that he is "open" to conversations about a united Ireland.

But he says he doesn't find any the arguments for constitutional change convincing.

"I'm a democrat so I believe in the right to self-determination, and I don't believe in the armed struggle if I don't get my own way," says Paisley.

"My mind is open, I'm a true believer in Britain and this place being British.

"But if you have got persuasive arguments please present them because to date I have not heard them," he adds.

Not 'some little-Englander'

Paisley also says that, unlike the former DUP leader Arlene Foster, he would not leave Northern Ireland if it was no longer part of the UK

Paisley also says that, unlike the former DUP leader Arlene Foster, he would not leave Northern Ireland if it was no longer part of the UK.

"I take the view that my great, great, great-grandfather's blood is in the soil of this country.

"This is my country - I ain't leaving ever."

He adds that he is not "some little-Englander", but an "Ulsterman who is proudly British".

Both the Northern Ireland Secretary of State Hilary Benn and the Taoiseach Micheál Martin refused invitations to appear on the podcast.

A source close to Martin said he didn't see the benefit in getting into a debate about it.

The producers of the podcast were told Hilary Benn, who is the representative for the British government in Northern Ireland, wasn't prepared to take part in an episode focused on the British identity.

They said Benn didn't want to be seen on one side of the debate.

A spokesperson for the Northern Ireland Office (NIO) said: "Northern Ireland will remain a part of the UK for as long as the people of Northern Ireland wish it to be. This is in accordance with the Good Friday Agreement and the principle of consent that underpins it.

"The view of the Secretary of State is that at present there is no clear basis to suggest that a majority of people in Northern Ireland wish to separate from the United Kingdom."

Paisley claimed his position showed that a Labour Party Secretary of State would "never be a champion for the Union".

The first episodes of 'Borderland – UK or United Ireland?' are available now on BBC Sounds and other podcast providers.