Welsh Labour minister defends winter fuel cut

Rachel Reeves said from this autumn pensioners not on pension credit will no longer get winter fuel payments

A Welsh Labour minister defended cuts to winter fuel payments for most pensioners in a debate on Wednesday.

Conservatives challenged Labour in the Senedd to back calls for the UK government to reverse the plans, warning they will have a "devastating impact" with an estimated 500,000 losing up to £300 this winter.

But Jane Hutt, Social Justice Secretary, said "difficult decisions" were being taken because of a £22bn "black hole" in UK public finances.

Plaid Cymru supported the Conservatives' calls, but accused UK Labour of continuing Tory "austerity".

Labour defeated Tory calls to reverse the decision in a vote - but most Labour Senedd members were absent for the debate itself.

Both the Conservatives and Plaid warned that pensioners could die as a result of the UK government policy.

Under the plans announced by Chancellor Rachel Reeves, from this autumn pensioners not on pension credit or other means-tested benefits will no longer get the annual payment.

Jane Hutt, who was one of only two Labour speakers in the debate, said it was "important to remember the context" for the changes.

"There is a £22bn black hole in the public purse, and difficult decisions are now being taken by the new UK government as a result of 14 years of Tory austerity and economic mismanagement."

• Is there a £22bn 'black hole'?

Hutt said she was supporting a UK government campaign to encourage people to take up pension credit.

She outlined a number of Welsh government schemes, including the emergency discretionary assistance fund, which she said not enough pensioners were taking up.

Hutt's defence of the winter fuel payments cuts came despite having previously said that it risked "pushing some pensioners into fuel poverty".

Welsh First Minister Eluned Morgan previously said that "no one in Labour is happy" with the move but it needs to be done to help balance the books.

Andrew RT Davies raised winter fuel payments in First Minister's Questions on Tuesday

The £22bn claim was disputed by Conservatives in the chamber - Janet Finch Saunders demanded evidence for it from the minister.

Joel James, Conservative South Wales Central MS, opened the debate telling Senedd members that the Labour government "will be taking vital income away from those who most need it”.

James said Labour Party research had said that scrapping universal payments would lead excess deaths to increase by almost 4,000.

“Why do they want to take a decision which, by their own research, will cause the death of thousands,” he said.

James said the UK government was “ultimately paving the way for extremely painful fiscal policies and further tax rises”.

"They will argue that if vulnerable pensioners have to pay, then so will everyone else."

Plaid Cymru South Wales West MS Sioned Williams said her party shared the Tory concerns, but accused the Labour Party of continuing “the austerity agenda of the previous Conservative government in Westminster”.

"Austerity measures deepen inequality by exacerbating the hardship faced and felt by people on low incomes while enabling the wealthiest to shoulder the lightest burden," she said.

Her party colleague Heledd Fychan added that “people will die as a result of this decision”.

Other than the minister, Mike Hedges, MS for Swansea East, was the only other politician from Labour to speak.

He appeared to accuse the Conservatives of hypocrisy, by reminding Darren Millar of his opposition to universal free prescriptions, and questioned why wealthy people should receive the payment.

“Do Paul McCartney, Andrew Lloyd Webber, Elton John, Sting, Mick Jagger need it? No.

"I could go on for the next four minutes with naming people who are very wealthy, who don’t need it.”

Andrew RT Davies, Welsh Conservative Senedd leader, asked about the “guy who works in our local iron mongers who is going to find himself £13 over the threshold" for pension credit, "so he’s going to lose that £300?"

After Davies raised concerns about premature deaths, Hedges added: “We don't know how many people are going to die this winter. You can’t know.”

He added that the cut off point for the receipt of pension credit is wrong, and said it would be fairer if all pensioners got it but that it was dependent on earnings.

A Conservative motion calling for the changes to be reversed was defeated by Labour - 23 votes for to 24 against.

Under the changes those entitled to pension credit for at least one day between 16 and 22 September will qualify for the winter fuel payment.

Until now, it has been paid to all pensioners to help with energy bills.

This year, the winter fuel payment totals £200 for those on certain benefits and born between 23 September, 1944, and 22 September, 1958.

For those born before 23 September, 1944, and on certain benefits, it is worth £300.

What do UK ministers say?

A UK government spokesperson said it was "committed to giving pensioners the dignity and security they deserve in retirement, which is why we are protecting the triple lock with the state pension set to increase by £1,700 over the course of parliament".

"But given the dire state of the public finances we have inherited, it's right that we target support to those who need it most."

The spokesperson said that across England and Wales "over a million pensioners will continue to receive the winter fuel payment, many will benefit from the £150 Warm Home Discount scheme, and we urge others to check their eligibility for Pension Credit on gov.uk".

Additional reporting by Adrian Browne and Mark Palmer.