Brexit Minister Lord David Frost joined the Executive Office Committee to discuss EU exit issues
Lord Frost was the UK's chief-Brexit negotiator and helped form the final agreement, including the NI Protocol
The protocol means food products must be checked and controlled as they enter NI from GB
Grace periods have been agreed to enable chilled meat supplies to continue coming to NI
Unionist politicians oppose the protocol, with some taking a legal challenge over its lawfulness
Last week a High Court judge in Belfast returned a verdict that the protocol is in fact lawful
The committee chair draws the meeting to a close.
That concludes live coverage of the assembly for the summer as MLAs are on recess.
We’ll be back in September, but you just never know, you may well be hearing from us again before then.
From all of the team, have a great summer holiday!
Image source, NI AssemblyColin McGrath, the chair of the Executive Office Committee, thanks Lord Frost and Rebecca Ellis for attending today’s meeting.
Before letting them leave the room, he says “we maintain the cool heads all round, especially at this time of year, to make sure we don’t see violence on our streets” but some “settlement and practical outcomes that work for everyone”.
Pat Sheehan of Sinn Féin chips in to say: “There was a protest called several weeks ago against the Irish Sea border and there were more press photographers turned up to that protest than protestors.”
He reiterates that he believes this shows “how overblown this issue about tensions in the community and so on is”.
“Utter drivel,” responds Christopher Stalford of the DUP.
Christopher Stalford of the DUP says those who oppose the protocol should not be dismissed as “doomsters” or “gloomsters”.
“How can you tell me there has been no constitutional change in the status of NI when laws made by foreign powers and implemented by foreign courts will apply here but not in the rest of the country of which I am a citizen?”
Lord Frost responds: “The protocol is clear that it does not affect NI’s position as part of the UK or as part of the customs territory or as part of the internal market.
“That is the reality of the situation.”
Image source, NI Assembly“Michael Gove negotiated a dog’s breakfast of a deal and you’ve been left to clean up the mess haven’t you?” says South Belfast MLA Mr Stalford.
Lord Frost says: “The reason the protocol is shaped as it is is because we had a particular inheritance from the previous team who could not get their deal, rightly, in my view, through parliament”.
Emma Sheerin of Sinn Féin is up next.
She says: “We’ve had political unionism align themselves with masked men on the street, inciting violence, basically creating a situation from a trade agreement that was a threat to their identity and nationality which is not the case as outlined by yourself.
“We’re now in the weekend of the Twelfth.
“Will you take this opportunity to condemn, in totality, any threat of violence or incitement of violence on the streets in the north?”
Image source, NI AssemblyLord Frost responds that “we don’t want violence, we condemn violence, we condemn incitement to violence - that is wrong. We think there should be calm.”
Problems should be sorted politically, adds the Brexit minister, but says the protests on the streets “seems to me to be a manifestation of quite a lot of popular discontent about the protocol”.
“Peaceful process is a perfectly legitimate right in this country,” he adds.
DUP MLA Diane Dodds asks Lord Frost if he agrees with the prime minister that it was "unfortunate and probably a mistake to give Brussels such leverage over the internal market of the United Kingdom and its trading arrangements through the protocol".
She describes these as "quite astonishing concessions".
Lord Frost responds that "the difficulty we've got with this is that, as the prime minister said, the rules are not in our hands".
Image source, NI AssemblyLord Frost says the rules are operating under the "legal authority of one party to the treaty".
"That's quite unusual and it obviously does affect the tone and balance of the discussions that we have.
"I think that's probably what the prime minister was kind of alluding to when he made that comment."
Image source, NI AssemblyPat Sheehan of Sinn Féin says “the vast majority of business and farmers support the protocol”.
In relation to goods coming from GB to NI, he says if people “can’t get cumberland sausages here, they’ll certainly be able to get local sausages and that’s good for local businesses”.
Lord Frost responds that “on the basis of the NI sausages I’ve had on my visits here, I agree with you the local produce - it is just as good, but that’s not the point”.
“The opportunities have changed and they have disappeared from one producer, and yes, may have opened up to another, but that’s not what we were trying to achieve here.”
Independent MLA Trevor Lunn asks if the UK had ever tried to "aspire to a higher standard than the EU" on issues such as veterinary or Sanitary and Phytosanitary standards (SPS).
Lord Frost replies: "We definitely aspire in the future to do different things in the broad agri-food area I suppose, not necessarily always in SPS laws specifically."
Image source, NI AssemblyThe minister lists examples such as animal welfare or the exports of animals which the UK will look at.
"I think it's noticeable that the first change that came in after the end of the year in agri-food rules was one that we brought in that prohibited a particular plant product," he continues.
"The first change was actually us bringing in a higher standard, albeit in a very limited area."
“You were Britain’s chief negotiator for Brexit. Your eyes were wide open and your fingerprints is on every page of the protocol. Sixty-three pages of black and white,” says Martina Anderson.
The Sinn Féin MLA asks the Brexit minister if he accepts that the protocol has enabled NI to gain access to the single-market in the EU.
“I was the chief negotiator in 2019 and 2020,” responds Lord Frost.
He says the “protocol was the best option in a very complex situation”.
Image source, NI AssemblyA former Sinn Féin MEP, Ms Anderson references a recent High Court ruling over the lawfulness of the NI Protocol.
It was taken forward by a number of unionist politicians who oppose the agreement.
Lord Frost says he cannot comment on the case as it’s being appealed, but he does clarify his view that “nothing in the protocol affects the territorial integrity of the UK”.
He adds that the protocol is “clear about NI’s place in the customs union, it’s clear about the place of NI in the UK’s internal market”.
Ulster Unionist MLA John Stewart asks Lord Frost which areas need to be rebalanced and what mitigations he wants to see in place regarding the protocol.
Lord Frost replies that the MLA will have to wait to hear "the full details" when a statement is made in parliament.
"The fundamental is finding a way to ensure that goods can move from Great Britain to Northern Ireland in a freer way than is possible at the moment," he says.
Image source, NI AssemblyHe adds that there is a "chilling effect" because of the customs boundary on GB companies "wanting to trade with Northern Ireland".
He says that is "clear" both anecdotally and in the figures.
Mr Stewart says his party opposes the NI Protocol and looks forward to meeting the Brexit minister about the issue next week.
“It’s your deal,” says Colin McGrath to Lord Frost in relation to the NI Protocol.
The SDLP MLA says “if your deal is so shoddy why did you negotiate it?”.
The Brexit minister says “the way it is being implemented doesn’t reflect the balance” which was agreed during negotiations.
“I don’t think it’s right to look at the protocol as a definitive text that was there in October 2019 and there’s nothing more to say,” explains Lord Frost.
Image source, NI AssemblySouth Down MLA Colin McGrath asks the Brexit minister whether he sees “positives out of the protocol for business and trade here in NI”.
Lord Frost says the protocol was designed to try and “provide stability” for business and “ensuring there is no infrastructure and checks on the land border is extremely important”.
He explains that he was in Newry this morning where, he says, it was “very obvious that that has been extremely important to the economic success in that area”.
“We think it's absolutely essential that is maintained and it’s good we've found a way to do it, it’s a question of finding the right balance.”
Lord Frost tells MLAs that relationship between the UK and EU "it is a little bit tense at the monument".
"Nobody wants that," he adds and explains that "the protocol issues are at the core of that".
The Brexit minister adds that if solutions can be found to issues, "the price on offer for us if we can find this new balance is that we will set the relationship between us and the EU onto a different trajectory".
Lord Frost says “the protocol was a huge compromise by us to protect the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement”.
He adds “it is pretty exceptional” and such a “highly unusual situation” that “it can’t be treated as just any other external border of the single market”.
The Brexit minister outlines that the government “reject suggestions that we ignored” the protocol or “not tried it”.
“We have problems,” says Lord Frost, adding that “the zero risk approach to how the rules should operate is in practice privileging one part of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement and the protocol over others".
Image source, NI Assembly“Nobody that I’ve spoken to from a wide range of political and civil society, businesses, nobody thinks it’s working perfectly as it should, or have suggested improvements,” says the minister.
He adds it’s welcome that the EU has shown some flexibility, but he says “the current process isn’t dealing with the fundamental problems”.
“We need to find a new balance in how the protocol is working if we are going to manage it,” explains Lord Frost.
Image source, NI AssemblyColin McGrath, the chair of the Executive Office Committee, opens the meeting to the public.
He welcomes Lord Frost and Rebecca Ellis from the Cabinet Office.
The SDLP MLA moves straight to business.
He says “Brexit is going to be most harshly felt here in the north of Ireland” adding that “the majority here are uneasy with Brexit and the significant impact it is going to have on trade, opportunities and communities right across the north”.
Mr McGrath then invites Lord Frost to make some opening remarks.
Image source, EPALord Frost was the UK’s chief Brexit negotiator.
He helped to formulate an agreement around the protocol on behalf of the UK government, but has previously said it was not being implemented as he intended.
Yesterday, the now Brexit minister said the government will publish its plans for the future of the NI Protocol in the next fortnight, before Parliament rises for the summer recess.
He said the EU had still not responded to 12 papers tabled by the UK.
The minister’s appearance at the Executive Office Committee comes just over a week after EU chief negotiator Maros Sefcovic gave evidence to MLAs about the post-Brexit Northern Ireland Protocol.
A big part of today’s committee meeting will undoubtedly focus on the NI Protocol.
The protocol is the part of the Brexit deal which keeps Northern Ireland in the EU single market for goods and means EU customs rules are enforced at its ports.
It was agreed by the UK and EU in October 2019 and was subject to further negotiation and agreement in 2020.
Under EU food safety rules, chilled meat products are not allowed to enter the single market from non-member countries such as the UK.
That means sending sausages from Great Britain to Northern Ireland is - in theory - no longer allowed.
Last week, the EU agreed to a UK request to delay a ban on chilled meat products from GB being sold in NI.
Image source, ReutersHello and welcome to live coverage of the Northern Ireland Assembly.
This afternoon’s meeting of the Executive Office Committee is extraordinary, not least because it’s taking place on a Friday but because MLAs are due to be joined by Brexit Minister Lord Frost.
He’s been in NI meeting business groups to discuss EU exit and NI Protocol related issues.
MLAs will have plenty of questions to ask him during today’s session.
Stay with us.