David Cameron quizzed by MPs over lobbying row
Follow us on Twitter @BBCPolitics | What's the Greensill lobbying row about? | David Cameron to face MPs over Greensill lobbying
Follow us on Twitter @BBCPolitics | What's the Greensill lobbying row about? | David Cameron to face MPs over Greensill lobbying
Live Reporting
Alex Kleiderman, Richard Morris and Mary O'Connor
All times stated are UK
Watch: Cameron accused of 'demeaning' himself over lobbying
During the Treasury Committee hearing, Labour's Siobhan McDonagh accused David Cameron of "demeaning" himself in the way he lobbied government ministers.
Watch the exchange here.
Video content
Reality Check
Why is David Cameron being questioned twice?
MPs on the Treasury Committee spent almost three hours questioning David Cameron. But his day is far from over because he is due to face another committee.
The next session will be in front of the Public Accounts Committee, which is chaired by Labour MP Meg Hillier.
Mr Cameron is attending two committees because both are holding ongoing inquiries called Lessons from Greensill Capital. But they have different focuses.
The Treasury Committee is looking at lessons that can be learned specifically by the financial system and the Treasury from the collapse of Greensill.
The Public Accounts Committee is investigating wider issues including “influence and transparency” in government, as well as government suppliers and Covid-19 support packages.
Cameron's past words quoted back at him
Jonathan Blake
BBC political correspondent
It was only a matter of time before David Cameron's words on lobbying in 2010 were quoted back at him.
Labour's Siobhain McDonagh asked the former prime minister if the now infamous "quiet word in your ear" speech depicted his own behaviour with Greensill.
Cameron took the opportunity to remind MPs of the legislation his government passed to tighten the rules, but acknowledged the criticism of it.
His answer was given short shrift, and the same MP then accused Mr Cameron of "WhatsApping his way around Whitehall".
Politics is at play here, of course, and it's been Labour's charge throughout that the lobbying saga is an example of what Sir Keir Starmer calls "Tory sleaze".
But some Conservatives have also strongly criticised the former prime minister's actions and argued that a change of the rules is necessary.
A short breather for Cameron
David Cameron may have finished his grilling from the MPs on the Treasury committee but he's not done just yet.
He has to face more questions from the Public Accounts Committee.
It is holding an inquiry entitled Lessons from Greensill Capital.
In a Tweet earlier, the committee said it would be "following up" on the questions put to Cameron by the Treasury Committee.
Stay with us to see what more it can glean from the former PM about his work on behalf of Greensill Capital, and his contacts with members of the government.
Treasury Committee hearing ends
Rushanara Ali finishes her questions by saying Cameron "should have known better".
She said it was bitterly disappointing to have to ask him about his involvement with Greensill Capital and she has "no pleasure" in doing so.
Cameron does not respond directly to the MP's comments and commitee chair Mel Stride brings the hearing to a close.
Greensill was using Cameron - Labour MP
Labour's Rushanara Ali says Cameron's reputation is "now in tatters".
Cameron says he did do due diligence before joining Greensill, and he "greatly regrets" that the company was not what he thought it was.
Ms Ali says Cameron is a "teflon man and a great survivor", while taxpayers are going to continue to "be affected by this".
Cameron says he "takes responsibility for this", and that the committee should be able to ask the Treasury for exactly how much taxpayers have paid into Greensill's accounts.
At best, Greensill was "using you" and at "worst, was bringing the office of former prime minister into disrepute," she says, adding that Cameron was "turning a blind eye on things that were really obvious".
Cameron says he believes the company could have been a great British success story.
Heywood tried to bring in good people - Cameron
Cameron mounts a defence of Lord Heywood, the late civil cabinet secretary who helped bring Greensill boss Lex Greensill into the heart of government.
Asked by Conservative Steve Baker about Lord Heywood's role in "making introductions" for Greensill, the former PM says attacks on him are unfair, especially as "he's not here to defend himself".
Heywood "wanted to bring good people in to help shake things up and provide good public services," Cameron says.
Cameron: I have regrets
David Cameron says he does have "regrets" over his involvement with Greensill Capital.
Labour's Angela Eagle is allowed a few more minutes of questioning and after listening to the former PM speak about the impact the company's failure had on former staff and investors, asks: "So summing that up, then, it's really no regrets then about your own personal behaviour?"
Cameron replies: "I'm not saying that at all."
He tells the committee it is "a great regret that this company has failed - that it has gone into administration - and the people I feel most sorry for are the people who worked for Greensill... and believed deeply in what the company was doing, and have lost their jobs."
Reality Check
Does David Cameron still receive public money?
Since 1991, former prime ministers who are “still active in public life” have been entitled to an annual payment called a Public Duty Costs Allowance. They are allowed to claim up to £115,000 of public money every year for “necessary office and secretarial costs arising from fulfilling public duties”.
In the 2019-20 financial year, David Cameron claimed £111,457, less than his predecessors Sir John Major, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.
How much was Cameron paid by Greensill?
Committee chair Mel Stride says most people "would not accept" that the amount of money David Cameron earned wouldn't have made a difference to the amount of lobbying work he did.
He asks what Cameron's remuneration from his job with Greensill was, and if it was around £1m.
"It was a generous, big salary, that you might earn, someone in banking," replies Cameron. He says it is important that people know he was being paid, but he doesn't wish to share what his salary was.
"If I had gone to work for a large bank, or such like... perhaps it would have been even more," he says, adding he was more excited by working in financial technology than his earnings.
"By anyone's terms, it was a generous salary," he finishes.
What have we learned so far?
'No evidence of fraud'
Asked about claims some Greensill loans handed to clients were secured against fake invoices, Cameron says he hasn't seen "any evidence".
Conservative MP Anthony Browne raises media revelations that point to what he says were possible "large amounts of fraud going on".
Cameron says: "If what is being suggested is true, then that needs to be properly looked at."
Stalking or lobbying, asks Eagle
Labour's Angela Eagle asks if the 56 messages that the former PM sent to officials were "more like stalking than lobbying" - and if he regrets the level of contact he was trying to make.
David Cameron says: "It's easy to forget now just what a time of economic shock it was."
But he again says he thinks it would be more appropriate to send one letter or email rather than message as much as he did.
Eagle also asks how many times Cameron used Greensill's private planes to fly to Newquay - near one of his family homes - or other private journeys, and if they were declared as taxable benefits.
Cameron says he hasn't got a log book of exactly everything he used the planes for.
But, he adds, anything that was taxable would have been declared and paid for "in the proper way".
Cameron - 'I asked lots of questions about the company'
Tory MP Felicity Buchan asks Cameron whether he carried out "due diligence" on Greensill before taking his advisory position.
"I did think about it very carefully," he says. "I consulted very senior business leaders and talked to financial analysts...
"Obviously I asked lots of questions about the company - about every aspects of the business."
When it was suggested the way Greensill Capital was being run had already thrown up several "red flags", Cameron says: "I thought I got satisfactory answers".
Cameron says he felt Greensill had been a "worthwhile business... but clearly this company has failed... if you work for a company that goes into administration you look back and think of all the choices you made".
Reality Check
What is the CCFF?
The committee has been discussing the Corporate Covid Financing Facility (CCFF). But what is it and how does it work?
The CCFF was set up by the Treasury and Bank of England as part of the package of financial support for companies hit by the coronavirus pandemic.
The cheap, government-backed loan scheme was meant to help large firms with a big impact on the UK economy through the crisis.
The list of companies that have used the facility includes names such as M&S, Asos, Nissan, Ryanair and Easyjet, as well as IAG, which owns British Airways.
But the scheme was not available for financial firms, which was why Greensill was not allowed to borrow from it.
Should rules on lobbying by ex-PMs be tightened?
Earlier, Cameron rejected a suggestion by former prime minister Gordon Brown that there should be no commercial contact between ex-PMs and government departments.
"While it's very important we regulate lobbying properly and look at the rules," he said, "we must not get to a situation where the public sector is cut off from the private sector."
Nevertheless, Cameron accepted "maybe there's a case for a longer period of time before there's commercial contact between ex-PMs and a [government] department".
Does Cameron think he messaged too much?
Labour's Emma Hardy asks if Rishi Sunak has published every text he sent to him about Greensill.
Cameron says "I believe so, yes."
Ms Hardy then asks what was discussed between him and Mr Sunak, and if telephone conversations were private or with other Treasury officials.
Cameron says he would have been discussing the benefits of supply-chain finance - something he's "passionate about" - but he says he doesn't know if there were others on the call.
Ms Hardy asks if he regrets taking away government attention from dealing with the pandemic by sending 56 messages to various officials.
Cameron says he accepts one of the reasons for his persistence was because the company had not got a good initial proposal over to the Treasury.
He says he thinks it was "appropriate" for him to use the channels to message he did, but in future lobbyists should "restrict themselves far more" - to one letter or one email.
The former PM adds that civil servants have told him his communications were appropriate, because government is always open to proposals from business.
Rate cut text was 'spellcheck error'
Earlier in the exchanges, Cameron insisted a text message he sent last year to a top Treasury official which appeared to show advance knowledge of a Bank of England rate cut was a spelling mistake.
The message - one of more than 40 released this week before the committee hearing - said: "Never quite understood how rate cuts help a pandemic."
Asked about the message, Cameron says: "I've been rather baffled by this text message because, obviously, rate cuts are a very appropriate thing to do at a time of difficulty.
"I think I'm a victim of spellcheck here - I think it was about a VAT cut... I think I was responding to something that was in the news."
Was it unusual for Cameron to contact the Treasury this much?
Conservative Julie Marson says Lord McPherson has told the Committee previously that, usually, former prime ministers do not contact the Treasury, especially to lobby. She asks if this was an exceptional course of action.
Cameron says businesses were "uniquely threatened" and these were "exceptional times". He says in the future it might be appropriate to maybe send one email or one letter.
Marson says former prime ministers may contact about policy, rather than a specific economic interest.
Cameron says he was "passionate" about Greensill because he believed it could help small businesses and supply chains across the UK.
What has David Cameron said about lobbying in the past?
Chris Morris
BBC Reality Check
David Cameron isn’t the first senior politician to say things in opposition which prove difficult to live up to in power. Nor will he be the last.
But in a speech in the run-up to the 2010 general election, as part of his promise to rebuild trust in politics, he criticised what he called secret corporate lobbying.
“We all know how it works” he said. “The lunches, the hospitality, the quiet word in your ear, the ex-ministers and ex-advisors for hire, helping big business find the right way to get its way."
He went on to say that if the Conservatives won the 2010 election (which under his leadership, of course, they did) they would make sure “ex-ministers are not allowed to use their contacts and knowledge - gained while being paid by the public to serve the public - for their own private gain.”
Mr Cameron insists that he did nothing wrong in lobbying on Greensill’s behalf. He only started working for the company two years after he resigned as prime minister.
But perception matters. And the promises he made in 2010 sit rather uncomfortably alongside the messages he sent in 2020, which are now in the public domain.