Ministers 'urgently working' on how to clear sub-postmasters' names
Some more now from the Commons, where Justice Secretary Alex Chalk and some of his ministers have just finished taking questions from MPs.
During the session, Tory MP Giles Watling brought up the issue of private prosecution, which allows companies or organisations to investigate and appoint lawyers to present evidence in court.
The Post Office used this method during the Horizon saga, but says it has not undertaken any private prosecutions related to the matter since 2015.
Watling asked if Chalk should be allowed to "strip the Post Office of its powers to independently prosecute", to which Justice Minister Mike Freer replied:
Quote Message: We are urgently working on the detail of how to clear the names of the postmasters as quickly as possible and further details will be announced in due course."
We are urgently working on the detail of how to clear the names of the postmasters as quickly as possible and further details will be announced in due course."
BreakingJustice secretary 'actively considering' bill to quash convictions
We said earlier that Justice Secretary Alex Chalk was in the House of Commons today, taking questions from MPs on a range of issues.
Former cabinet minister Nadhim Zahawi - who made an appearance playing himself in the recent ITV drama Mr Bates vs the Post Office - just stood to ask a question on the matter.
He calls for a "simple bill to quash" the hundreds of wrongful convictions that still exist against former sub-postmasters and postmistresses.
Chalk responds by saying the
suggestion is receiving "active consideration" and he expects to be able to make
more announcements shortly.
What is the Horizon IT system at the centre of all this?
BBCCopyright: BBC
Error logs of the Horizon system show that computer bugs could cause lossesImage caption: Error logs of the Horizon system show that computer bugs could cause losses
Horizon was
introduced into the Post Office network from 1999. The software, developed by
the Japanese company Fujitsu, was used for tasks such as transactions,
accounting and stocktaking.
Sub-postmasters
complained about bugs in the system after it reported shortfalls, some of which
amounted to many thousands of pounds.
Some postmasters attempted to plug the gap with their own money - because their contracts stated they
were responsible for any shortfalls - with some even remortgaging their homes, in an
(often fruitless) attempt to correct an error.
So far, nobody at
the Post Office, or at Fujitsu, has been held accountable.
The Horizon system is still used by the Post Office, which describes the latest version as "robust".
Former sub-postmaster says Horizon victims only getting older
BBCCopyright: BBC
Ian Warren is one of the sub-postmasters wrongly prosecuted on the basis of the faulty Horizon software.
He was falsely accused by the Post Office of stealing £18,000 from his village post office in Essex and was given a nine-month prison sentence, which was suspended for two years, in 2008.
He says at the time he asked how many other people were in his position and was told he was the only one - something many of the sub-postmasters and postmistresses affected by the scandal have also recalled.
Warren says he blamed the "colossal" stress for his subsequent bowel cancer and his wife being diagnosed with dementia at 58. His conviction was eventually quashed in 2021.
Now 75 years old, he has not received a settlement and tells the BBC he's concerned victims are "getting older". In a direct address to PM Rishi Sunak, Warren adds:
Quote Message: Be true to your word, get independent mediators in to assess levels of compensation.
Be true to your word, get independent mediators in to assess levels of compensation.
Quote Message: Above all, just get cracking."
Above all, just get cracking."
New law would amount to 'parliamentary interference' - ex-attorney general
But there has been some push back against this, including from former
attorney general Dominic Grieve, who says it would amount to “parliamentary
interference in the judicial process”.
He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme earlier that each case “ought to
be considered on its own merits”, and sent to the Criminal Cases Review
Commission (CCRC), which investigates alleged miscarriages of justice.
A new law, he added, would be a “shortcut” and may leave some
people “dissatisfied that they haven’t really been fully exonerated”.
Prof Graham Zellick, former chair of the CCRC, said he believed
the body could deal with cases quickly, because of the “common feature” in them
- that the prosecution case depended on evidence obtained from the computer
system:
Quote Message: Once you identify that the conviction is clearly, manifestly unsafe, [it] has to be quashed."
Once you identify that the conviction is clearly, manifestly unsafe, [it] has to be quashed."
Analysis
What are the government's options?
Dominic Casciani
Home and legal correspondent
The scale of the Post Office scandal means that there are no easy and quick solutions for the government - hence why Justice Secretary Alex Chalk has held talks with senior members of the judiciary.
So what are the options?
Ministers could advise the King to grant Royal Pardons, once reserved for the condemned as they faced the gallows.
But these would be largely symbolic acts because the government can't, at the stroke of a pen, quash a conviction. That’s because the courts are constitutionally independent - and that means a second option could be difficult too.
Parliament could pass an act declaring that all the Horizon convictions be quashed, but that would be an unprecedented meddling in the work of judges - and it would pave the way for politicians to do it again.
The third option is a mass appeal with a crystal clear submission to Court of Appeal judges that the state no longer believes the convictions should stand. There’s a precedent for this - 39 post office cases were overturned in one go in 2021.
But running such a case would not be easy - and it could still take years to resolve.
Background to the Post Office scandal
AFPCopyright: AFP
This saga may have been known about for some time, but let’s remind ourselves of the
basics:
More than 700 Post Office branch managers were convicted of false accounting, theft and fraud
between 1999 and 2015 because of a faulty accounting system, Horizon, which
made it look like money was missing from their sites
Some
sub-postmasters wrongfully went to prison, many were financially
ruined and forced to declare bankruptcy - and some have since died
It's been called
the most widespread miscarriage of justice in UK history
The Metropolitan
Police is investigating possible fraud offences arising from the prosecutions
and a public inquiry into the scandal is ongoing
To date, 93
convictions have been overturned - of those, only 30 people have
agreed "full and final settlements"
Many victims are
still fighting to have their convictions overturned or to secure full
compensation after being forced to pay out thousands of pounds of their own
money for shortfalls that were caused by the faulty software
An ITV drama, which aired last week, has put the issue firmly back into public consciousness
New laws 'would help to right a clear wrong' - former justice secretary
ReutersCopyright: Reuters
Robert Buckland has written a letter to The Times on the issueImage caption: Robert Buckland has written a letter to The Times on the issue
We've heard from two former justice secretaries since last night, setting out what they think the government needs to do moving forwards.
In a letter to The Times, Sir Robert Buckland, predecessor to the current Justice Secretary Alex Chalk, says the situation merits an "unprecedented approach". He writes:
Quote Message: We should recognise these exceptional circumstances by asking parliament to pass legislation that deals with the individual cases by exonerating the victims: there should be a presumption that they are all not guilty. Such legislation would help to right a clear wrong."
We should recognise these exceptional circumstances by asking parliament to pass legislation that deals with the individual cases by exonerating the victims: there should be a presumption that they are all not guilty. Such legislation would help to right a clear wrong."
Meanwhile, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, justice secretary under former Labour PM Tony Blair, says the government could introduce new laws "tomorrow, and there would be no resistance in parliament".
Chalk held talks with judges yesterday to discuss legally sound ways of clearing the names of the hundreds of sub-postmasters wrongly convicted in the Post Office Horizon scandal. We're yet to hear the outcome of those talks.
Ministers scramble to secure justice for Post Office victims
Emily Young
Live reporter
Hello and thanks for joining us as we set about on another day of covering the Post Office
scandal live.
The government is under increasing pressure to find a way to
clear the names of hundreds of sub-postmasters and postmistresses affected, with Justice Secretary Alex Chalk known to have held talks with judges yesterday on the matter.
More than 700 workers were prosecuted and convicted on the basis of
faulty software from a computer system called Horizon, which was used by the
Post Office to manage the accounts.
As we reported yesterday, the issue has been thrust back into the
spotlight after an ITV drama on the subject over Christmas - but these prosecutions actually took place between 1999 and 2015.
Chalk's due in the House of Commons later - we'll bring you anything he says on the matter, as well as other updates, explainers and analysis, right here. Stay with us.
Live Reporting
Edited by Sam Hancock and Emily Young
All times stated are UK
Get involved
Ministers 'urgently working' on how to clear sub-postmasters' names
Some more now from the Commons, where Justice Secretary Alex Chalk and some of his ministers have just finished taking questions from MPs.
During the session, Tory MP Giles Watling brought up the issue of private prosecution, which allows companies or organisations to investigate and appoint lawyers to present evidence in court.
The Post Office used this method during the Horizon saga, but says it has not undertaken any private prosecutions related to the matter since 2015.
Watling asked if Chalk should be allowed to "strip the Post Office of its powers to independently prosecute", to which Justice Minister Mike Freer replied:
BreakingJustice secretary 'actively considering' bill to quash convictions
We said earlier that Justice Secretary Alex Chalk was in the House of Commons today, taking questions from MPs on a range of issues.
Former cabinet minister Nadhim Zahawi - who made an appearance playing himself in the recent ITV drama Mr Bates vs the Post Office - just stood to ask a question on the matter.
He calls for a "simple bill to quash" the hundreds of wrongful convictions that still exist against former sub-postmasters and postmistresses.
Chalk responds by saying the suggestion is receiving "active consideration" and he expects to be able to make more announcements shortly.
What is the Horizon IT system at the centre of all this?
Horizon was introduced into the Post Office network from 1999. The software, developed by the Japanese company Fujitsu, was used for tasks such as transactions, accounting and stocktaking.
Sub-postmasters complained about bugs in the system after it reported shortfalls, some of which amounted to many thousands of pounds.
Some postmasters attempted to plug the gap with their own money - because their contracts stated they were responsible for any shortfalls - with some even remortgaging their homes, in an (often fruitless) attempt to correct an error.
So far, nobody at the Post Office, or at Fujitsu, has been held accountable.
The Horizon system is still used by the Post Office, which describes the latest version as "robust".
Former sub-postmaster says Horizon victims only getting older
Ian Warren is one of the sub-postmasters wrongly prosecuted on the basis of the faulty Horizon software.
He was falsely accused by the Post Office of stealing £18,000 from his village post office in Essex and was given a nine-month prison sentence, which was suspended for two years, in 2008.
He says at the time he asked how many other people were in his position and was told he was the only one - something many of the sub-postmasters and postmistresses affected by the scandal have also recalled.
Warren says he blamed the "colossal" stress for his subsequent bowel cancer and his wife being diagnosed with dementia at 58. His conviction was eventually quashed in 2021.
Now 75 years old, he has not received a settlement and tells the BBC he's concerned victims are "getting older". In a direct address to PM Rishi Sunak, Warren adds:
New law would amount to 'parliamentary interference' - ex-attorney general
As we've been reporting, some officials - including former Labour justice secretary Lord Falconer - are calling for the government to introduce new legislation to overturn the convictions of hundreds of sub-postmasters.
But there has been some push back against this, including from former attorney general Dominic Grieve, who says it would amount to “parliamentary interference in the judicial process”.
He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme earlier that each case “ought to be considered on its own merits”, and sent to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which investigates alleged miscarriages of justice.
A new law, he added, would be a “shortcut” and may leave some people “dissatisfied that they haven’t really been fully exonerated”.
Prof Graham Zellick, former chair of the CCRC, said he believed the body could deal with cases quickly, because of the “common feature” in them - that the prosecution case depended on evidence obtained from the computer system:
What are the government's options?
Dominic Casciani
Home and legal correspondent
The scale of the Post Office scandal means that there are no easy and quick solutions for the government - hence why Justice Secretary Alex Chalk has held talks with senior members of the judiciary.
So what are the options?
Ministers could advise the King to grant Royal Pardons, once reserved for the condemned as they faced the gallows.
But these would be largely symbolic acts because the government can't, at the stroke of a pen, quash a conviction. That’s because the courts are constitutionally independent - and that means a second option could be difficult too.
Parliament could pass an act declaring that all the Horizon convictions be quashed, but that would be an unprecedented meddling in the work of judges - and it would pave the way for politicians to do it again.
The third option is a mass appeal with a crystal clear submission to Court of Appeal judges that the state no longer believes the convictions should stand. There’s a precedent for this - 39 post office cases were overturned in one go in 2021.
But running such a case would not be easy - and it could still take years to resolve.
Background to the Post Office scandal
This saga may have been known about for some time, but let’s remind ourselves of the basics:
New laws 'would help to right a clear wrong' - former justice secretary
We've heard from two former justice secretaries since last night, setting out what they think the government needs to do moving forwards.
In a letter to The Times, Sir Robert Buckland, predecessor to the current Justice Secretary Alex Chalk, says the situation merits an "unprecedented approach". He writes:
Meanwhile, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, justice secretary under former Labour PM Tony Blair, says the government could introduce new laws "tomorrow, and there would be no resistance in parliament".
Chalk held talks with judges yesterday to discuss legally sound ways of clearing the names of the hundreds of sub-postmasters wrongly convicted in the Post Office Horizon scandal. We're yet to hear the outcome of those talks.
Ministers scramble to secure justice for Post Office victims
Emily Young
Live reporter
Hello and thanks for joining us as we set about on another day of covering the Post Office scandal live.
The government is under increasing pressure to find a way to clear the names of hundreds of sub-postmasters and postmistresses affected, with Justice Secretary Alex Chalk known to have held talks with judges yesterday on the matter.
More than 700 workers were prosecuted and convicted on the basis of faulty software from a computer system called Horizon, which was used by the Post Office to manage the accounts.
As we reported yesterday, the issue has been thrust back into the spotlight after an ITV drama on the subject over Christmas - but these prosecutions actually took place between 1999 and 2015.
Chalk's due in the House of Commons later - we'll bring you anything he says on the matter, as well as other updates, explainers and analysis, right here. Stay with us.