The petitions committee is now discussing where to take PE01627: Consent for mental health treatment for people under 18 years of age, external next.

Tory MSP Brian Whittle wonders about the role of teachers and GPs, professional constraints and training.

Convener Johann Lamont agrees this area should be looked at and suggests hearing from GPs themselves.

SNP MSP Angus MacDonald suggests looking into peer support good practice and areas where it is not happening.

The convener also queries how modern the advice and awareness raising is around this.

Tory MSP Brian Whittle suggest the committee contact the Truth Project , externalin England and the Victim's Commissioner down south.

Mr Whittle says he is very uncomfortable with inappropriate relationships and with the reaction of councils and the lack of records.

He says he would like to hear from local authorities.

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Ms Lamont agrees but says she thinks the systems are more rigorous now.

However she too wants to find out what happened in the past and suggests writing to the Scottish government and Cosla.

The committee convener explains she does not think the current inquiry being opened up is unlikely but there is an argument for an inquiry into state school abuse.

She adds that the committee could ask the government to keep it informed about research into the abolition of corroboration.

Ms Lamont thanks Ms Pugsley for her evidence and the committee suspends.

I think if a victims' commissioner existed, they would be doing this work for me, says Ms Pugsley.

The work I've had to put in to try to get justice has been huge and it's a heavy workload when you are the victim, she adds.

"If we do not have this inquiry, we're not going to be able to truthfully say that we have found every predator out there."

My case proves there was still someone in the system, she adds.

Record keeping is not brilliant so we do not know who is still in schools, Ms Pugsley says.

I think the chances of there being more abusers in the state school system is "quite strong", she tells the committee.

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Brian Whittle says inappropriate relationships can involve sex with a minor and he asks how much data from local authorities has been collected.

Ms Pugsley replies the records do not go back far enough and some councils are using data protection to withhold the records.

There is no guidance to local authorities about keeping records on allegations of inappropriate relationships in schools, she says.

"There seems to be a trend of poor record keeping."

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A woman who says she was sexually abused as a child has told the BBC she felt "defeated" after trying to seek justice.

Suzy Angus is part of the Speak Out Survivors group campaigning to scrap the need for corroboration in Scots law.

Corroboration means two separate sources of evidence are needed for a case to go to trial.

The campaigners will meet MSPs at Holyrood later.

They are also due to raise the issue in a meeting with Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf.

Ms Angus told BBC Scotland's The Nine that she had tried to take her case to court, but it was dropped because of the need for corroboration, which is a unique feature of Scots law.

• What is corroboration?
• Plan to end corroboration dropped
• Judge to review corroboration reform
• Top judges warn over corroboration
• Read more here

Convener Johann Lamont says going into court and giving evidence can be a challenge for an abuse survivor, as it can re-traumatise.

Ms Pugsley says this should depend on what the victim feels comfortable with.

She suggests there are ways around it, such as allowing someone else to give evidence on their behalf or using video links.

Ms Lamont asks if Ms Pugsley thinks what happened to her is less likely to happen now.

The petitioner says young people could still be vulnerable.

The accused in my case continued to teach and a key concern is a lack of records, she explains, and after a serious of FOIs to councils it seems records being kept are still "minimal".

She says she is unable to say whether things are being dealt with properly or not yet.

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Ms Pugsley says there is no CCTV coverage or witnesses to child abuse and without an inquiry you cannot get corroboration from other victims.

Ms Lamont asks if the petitioner accepts the issues and complexity around getting rid of corroboration.

Ms Pugsley suggests extra jury members could be brought in to allow for false accusations to be picked up.

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The evidence has to be heard in a court setting but with the need for corroboration, the case does not get there, Ms Pugsley explains.

The police are doing a phenomenal amount of work but we are not seeing convictions, the petitioner adds.

She adds if there is a fair trial you can let the jury decide.

We really need to hear the voices of victims, Ms Pugsley adds.

Image source, Getty Images

The Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry is looking in detail at historical abuse of children in residential care in Scotland and does not cover schools without boarding facilities.

Last September, 17 more institutions were identified as requiring investigation, including some special schools.

Earlier this month, campaign group Speak Out Survivors backed the scrapping of the need for corroboration.

Ms Pugsley wrote in her petition that without an inquiry covering state schools, "the government are prolonging the victimisation rather than enabling those without a voice to come forward".

Tory MSP Brian Whittle, who is Ms Pugsley's MSP, praises her for getting her campaign to this stage.

He asks for her thoughts about how the lack of an inquiry continues to victimise those subject to abuse.

Maryanne Pugsley says the first time her abuse was acknowledged was a big step because it told her she was not in the wrong.

"If you are not listened to, you stay feeling the victim."

She praises the Truth Project in England for gathering evidence from all people without exclusion.

"There's something powerful about really being taken seriously. The charities do take people seriously and they are doing a tremendous job out there."

Ms Pugsley says it is sad that the government is not doing the same.

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SNP MSP Angus MacDonald says the education secretary suggested adding non-care settings to the current child abuse inquiry would have taken many more years.

Ms Pugsley agrees it would take time for all of this to be collated together if everyone is included.

When it comes to children and when it comes to our schools I think it has to be prioritised as we need to think about the next generation, she says.

The petitioner reiterates her point this issue is rippling down and says this must be a priority.

"If we are determined enough I think we can do it."

Convener Johann Lamont seeks clarification on the remit of the public inquiry being asked for.

Ms Pugsley says she would want an inquiry covering all state schools and has been told that there is not enough time to cover this in the Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry.

She argues that including anyone who had been abused is a very damaging signal to send out, "to almost have to wait in line to be called forward".

Ms Pugsley explains there has been occasions where she has had to be in a supermarket where the accused is.

"The voices of the victims must be heard so that we can truthfully say we are getting it right for every child."

The petitioner reiterates her call for a public inquiry into the abuse of children within Scottish state schools, including a review of the law of corroboration.

She says she will have to give evidence to the Truth Project in England, as part of her abuse took place in England.

Ms Pugsley tells the MSPs she will have to relive the abuse she suffered as a child yet again.

For now I cannot turn a blind eye to the victims that are not being heard and the rights of children that are being ignored, she concludes.

The law restricts cases being heard in court due to the lack of corroborate, Ms Pugsley tells the committee.

There also appears to be gaps in vetting procedures for those who work in state schools, she adds.

"I consider it my civic duty to raise this petition. I have reached out to so many in trying to seek justice."

Ms Pugsley says she has received little support and even ended up writing to the child abuse inquiry in England.

The pain ripples down generation after generation when not addressed, she insists.

"I have not lived a life reaching my full potential."

Maryanne Pugsley tells the committee she was abused between the age of 12 years old and 15 years old in the 1970s.

It wasn't until the 90s that she realised this was child abuse and raised a complaint and the accused was suspended for a few months and then moved to another local authority to carry on teaching, explains the petitioner.

For years this plagued her, she explains.

Ms Pugsley phoned the in-care inquiry (Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry) but was told she did not meet the criteria.

In talking to the police she had to relive the sexual abuse, she explains.

Ms Pugsley returned to the school where she was abused to work as teacher's assistant and received an intimidating letter asking her to stop raising the case.

She says the exclusion and lack of support hurts very deeply.

The accused was interviewed by police but there was insufficient corroboration and her case was not heard in a criminal court, Ms Pugsley tells the committee.

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Public Petitions Committee convener Johann Lamont welcomes petitioner Maryanne Pugsley and asks her to make an opening statement.

Ms Pugsley is giving evidence on PE01717, external which calls on the Scottish government to endorse a public inquiry into the abuse of children within Scottish state schools, faith or otherwise, including a review of the law of corroboration.

She says she hopes by giving a brief account of her experience will inform her petition.

"I was sexually and emotionally abused by a teacher in a state school in Scotland."

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The Public Petitions Committee , externalwill now be urged to back a public inquiry into historic child abuse in state schools this week.

A woman who says she was abused as a child will tell the committee excluding state schools from the current Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry is "unfair".

Maryanne Pugsley is also calling for a review of the law of corroboration, which means two separate sources of evidence are needed for a case to go to trial.

PE01717, external calls on the Scottish government to endorse a public inquiry into the abuse of children within Scottish state schools, faith or otherwise, including a review of the law of corroboration.

• Read Petition background information, external
• Previous action taken to resolve issue, external
• Click here for the petition PDF, external

• SPICe Briefing (149KB pdf), external

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MSPs are quizzing Brexit Secretary Mike Russell.

We're covering the Public Petitions Committee this morning, but you can watch Mr Russell here with Scottish Parliament TV, external.

Good morning and welcome to Holyrood Live on Thursday 25 April 2019.

The Public Petitions Committee will be urged to back a public inquiry into historic child abuse in state schools this week, as they return from recess.

Petitioner Maryanne Pugsley, who says she was abused as a child, has said excluding state schools from the current Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry is "unfair".

Image source, Getty Images

First minister's questions will provide the usual entertainment from noon, to be followed by a sombre member's debate marking international workers' memorial day led by SNP MSP Bill Kidd.

After lunch, culture and tourism ministers face portfolio questions before John Swinney makes a statement on compensation for elderly and terminally ill abuse survivors.

Then the Hutchesons' Hospital Transfer and Dissolution (Scotland) Bill undergoes its final stage, followed by a debate on the benefits of sport and physical activity.

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