Cameron on Wales after Scotland

I've just been to Downing Street for my first opportunity to speak to the Prime Minister since the Scottish referendum.

It comes at a time of intense debate about what future powers should be devolved to Wales so inevitably it dominated the interview.

The Liberal Democrats have been pushing hard on the issue at their annual conference in Glasgow, and this week the leaders of the parties at the assembly are holding their first meeting to try to agree on what they think should be handed over from Westminster.

But despite all the talk, there is a fundamental deadlock holding up the biggest issue of the lot -- the partial devolution of income tax.

In other words whether the value of your pay packets should be decided in London or Cardiff.

A law is going through parliament which would allow the Welsh Government to have some control of the tax if it wants it, after winning a referendum.

No plans for change

Carwyn Jones has refused to even consider it because he believes Wales is under-funded under the Barnett formula.

So the message from Cardiff Bay has been that a referendum would only happen if there's a more generous settlement from Westminster.

The Prime Minister didn't give an inch on more funding so it appears that under a Conservative Government at least, a referendum on income tax devolution in Wales is very remote.

These were the key comments: "There aren't plans for some huge change in the formula distribution.

"It's up to different parties to make clear what happens next. For my part as a Conservative I want the Welsh Assembly to have these powers in order to do more for the Welsh people."

And on Carwyn Jones' position, he said: "I do not really understand the First Minister's thinking here because surely it makes more sense for the Welsh Assembly, whatever the level of grant it gets, to have the power to be able to raise and spend more of its own money.

Right thing for Welsh people

"I do not quite see the link between the two issues. Whatever the level of the grant, surely it makes sense to have more control of its tax powers.

"It sounds like he is making quite a political argument rather than just thinking these are separate issues, let us do the right thing for the Welsh people and have devolution which is my view. Instead he is trying to tie it with something else."

Mr Cameron's point is that the overall settlement from Westminster of around £15bn should be treated separately from the issue of the Treasury giving up some control of income tax.

This is the heart of the matter because Carwyn Jones believes the two are fundamentally intertwined.

He says if he agrees to the referendum then there'll be no way for Wales to get more money from Westminster in future because all the Treasury will say to Cardiff Bay is if you want more money then raise it yourself with the tax levers at your disposal.

It really comes down to Wales wanting more money and the Prime Minister refusing to agree.

Interestingly I spoke to some of my BBC colleagues from the other nations and regions in the UK who like me, were given a slot with the PM, and many of them had questions about grievances from their areas that they were being left-short changed compared to Scotland.

It puts things in perspective. Wales is in a long queue without a huge amount of leverage.