Sir Keir Starmer 'won't interfere' with Labour-Plaid talks

Sir Keir says nationalism has "done immense damage to the progressive cause"

The UK leader of the Labour party says he will not "interfere" with talks between First Minister Mark Drakeford and Plaid Cymru.

Earlier this week Sir Keir Starmer's essay "The Road Ahead" said nationalism was damaging the UK.

But in an interview with BBC Wales, Sir Keir did not link his argument to the Welsh nationalist party.

Plaid, led by Adam Price, is in discussions on a possible co-operation pact with Labour ministers.

The 11,500 word essay says the country is at a crossroads after the pandemic and is "crying out for change".

Published ahead of Labour's party conference in Brighton, he said he would create a "society built on everyone's contribution".

• Starmer writes essay to set out what he stands for

• Welsh Labour and Plaid in co-operation talks

The essay includes a critique of the Conservatives and the Scottish Nationalist Party (SNP), which he says "may define themselves against each other, but their politics is symbiotic, requiring one another to sustain and grow".

"Most immediately damaging to our country has been the rise of the multi-headed hydra of nationalism," he wrote.

"Both the SNP and the Conservatives use culture to distract and deflect, creating division between people of these islands.

"Nationalism is just one arm of the rise of identity-based politics in the Western world that has done immense damage to the progressive cause.

"By dividing people into smaller and smaller groups and diminishing the experiences of others, we atomise our society ever more and keep potential allies and friends at arm's length."

Plaid came third in the last Senedd election with 13 seats. Labour won the election but were a seat short of a majority, and often need opposition help to pass votes in the Welsh Parliament.

Mark Drakeford and Adam Price are in talks over a possible co-operation pact

Questioned if he was concerned about the talks with Plaid, Sir Keir said: "I was talking about the UK as a whole."

He told the Politics Wales programme that he was trying to distinguish "between the nationalism that draws us in in an insular way and patriotism, which is completely different".

Asked for a second time, Sir Keir said Mr Drakeford had "done an excellent job".

"That is why he's been elected back in with a huge mandate, which I think reflects the way he has governed," he said.

"So I'm not going to interfere with his decisions."

Pressed on the issue, the Labour leader argued that the essay did not go through the "political parts of the UK saying yes no, yes no".

'Not many ask about the constitution'

Sir Keir's essay says the UK is "one of the most centralised countries in Europe".

"Crucial decisions are too often made in offices in Westminster with little consideration of the lives they impact hundreds of miles away. That must change."

In the interview Sir Keir said voters in Wales "want decisions about them made closer to them".

While he acknowledged that for "big decisions you have the Welsh government", he suggested the public wanted more of a say in local housing and other public services.

Asked if he meant something more localised than the four nations of the UK, he added: "In my common sense discussions with families in Wales and elsewhere, not many people say, Keir it's the constitutional settlement, it's this power of Westminster that needs to be in in Wales.

"They do say, at my local school, I really think this should change, and I can't seem to do anything about it."

Politics Wales, BBC One Wales, Sunday 10:00 BST. Watch later on iPlayer.