'Red Bull link can help me and Scotland' - Townsend

Gregor Townsend says that Scotland are in "the best position we've been in" since he took over as head coach in 2017.

In a wide-ranging interview, focusing mostly on his controversial new consultancy gig with Red Bull and their rugby team Newcastle, Townsend says he is "all-in" with the national team and will pull back on his 30-day commitment to Red Bull if he feels he needs to.

He defended the link, though, and argued that it would make him a better coach for Scotland. The association with Red Bull and his connection with their English Prem team has been the source of much criticism since it was announced last week.

Is there a risk of him taking his eye off the ball with his day job? Is there a justifiable claim of greed? If he has 30 spare days to play with would he not be better off spending them in schools and clubs and developing young talent?

'I'm hoping to meet Jurgen Klopp'

About a month before Scotland went on their summer tour, Townsend got a phone call from what he calls "a respected person in sport", suggesting a Zoom call with an unidentified party.

"He said 'I can't tell you who it's with. There'll be an NDA [non-disclosure agreement] that you have to sign'," Townsend recounts. "That turned out to be my first connection with Red Bull. And these were people high up at Red Bull."

Red Bull were buying Newcastle and they wanted an adviser in their newly formed rugby department.

"I had another conversation with their global CEO on our summer tour and then after the tour they came up and met me," Townsend explains. "At the same time, Scottish Rugby offered me an extension on my contract."

Townsend is now contracted for an extra year, up to and including the World Cup in Australia in 2027. He told his bosses at Scottish Rugby that having access to one of the biggest sporting brands in the world was only beneficial to his development as a coach and, by extension, his coaching of the national team. The SRU agreed and a deal was done, presuming there was no conflict of interest.

The PR around the story from the SRU was a total mess, but Townsend is adamant that there is only upside for Scottish Rugby in all of this. His critics might beg to differ.

"My official start date was 1 October," he says. "I'm going out to Austria on Sunday to see what they've got in their training facilities. "They run ice hockey and football out of Salzburg as well. And that's great learning for me."

Who's sending him to Austria? "The chief executive of Red Bull," he says. "The person in charge of sporting projects as well. So those are the people I speak to. [At some point] I'm hoping to spend some time at Formula One and meet Jurgen Klopp [former Liverpool manager who is now Red Bull's head of global soccer] and people like that."

'Scotland remains driver of my life'

When the news of Townsend's consultancy first broke, the SRU's official line was that it had little to do with Newcastle Red Bulls, and was everything to do with Red Bull. That wasn't accurate.

Townsend visited the rugby club this week. He will be advising them on certain things - culture, training facilities, high-performance environments, broad brush stroke stuff. Their head coach, Alan Dickens, has said that he wants to tap into Townsend's knowledge in all sorts of areas.

The optics aren't great. Eddie Jones, when England coach, had a consultancy with Suntory Sungoliath in Japan, which went under the radar while England were winning but then became an issue when they started to fail.

"I have to be aware of any conflict of interest," says Townsend. Conflict of interest and distraction were things thrown at Jones and they'll be thrown at Townsend, too, if things don't run smoothly for Scotland in the coming months.

The reality of this is that if they turn over the All Blacks in November for the first time ever and then have a rampaging Six Nations then Townsend can turn up for a Scotland news conference in full Max Verstappen kit and nobody would care.

"It was very important for Scottish Rugby to make sure that there is no conflict, I'm aware of this and I have to flag up any potential conflict straight away," he adds.

A story emerged during the week that Townsend was helping Newcastle Red Bulls with player recruitment - with one of the players he was supposedly recommending being Toulon's and Scotland's Ben White.

"Let's address the player recruitment one," Townsend says. "I saw that article and I said to the journalist that it's not true. Newcastle Red Bulls have their own recruitment company."

It's a fire he had to put out. It won't be the last, you suspect. Townsend said that Scotland remains "the big driver of my life". If his bosses had said no to this consultancy, what would have happened?

"I would hope I would have still continued with Scotland," he says.

Hope?

"I am all-in. I am all-in," came the reply.

'Drive and buzz in quieter times'

Townsend is well-known for his voracious reading and his regular fact-finding exercises in different sports. He is a sponge for information and he argues this association with Red Bull is a continuation of that.

"I had a week with Collingwood [the Melbourne Aussie Rules giants] after the summer tour which was one of the best learning weeks I've had with an AFL team," he says. "It made me a better coach being in that environment."

He has done these missions in different sports for all of his coaching life.

"You don't see me doing media (appearances), you don't see me doing any commercial things," he explains. "It's not something I look to fill up my time with. What I do is try and learn from other organisations.

"These are the things that really stimulate me and I feel improve me, but also improve those around me. And that's part of my own time. The way an international coach's life works, there's time where you can do other things."

The optics, though. The allegations of wanting it all ways, the big job with Scotland and the side hustle with Red Bull?

"I'd say that would be from certain journalists who might not have been happy that [my contract] was extended in the first place," Townsend suggests.

"I know I've been in this role a long time and some people will think it's a good thing and others will think it's a bad thing. I have no control on that and people are entitled to their opinion.

"And whether that exists in an echo chamber or whether that is actually the view, I know that this [consultancy] can help me as a coach and it can help the team. It's a maximum of 30 days and that's outside of [Scotland] camps.

"I feel it gives me access to organisations that are world leading in sport, from football to Formula One to cycling, that I would never have had before.

"I'm giving something to Red Bull, which is my knowledge, and I feel flattered that they think I can help them. It gives me a real drive and buzz in those quieter times when we're not doing our jobs.

"That's international rugby, there's a lot of resting and reviewing and planning. I'll be working during those times, where over the last few years it would have been a bit quieter."

'This team is in best place ever'

Scotland finished fourth in this year's Six Nations - beating Wales and Italy in Edinburgh

There's no doubt that if Scotland have a poor autumn series, a disappointing Six Nations and a bad summer then Townsend will be in trouble. The new gig will be used as a stick to beat him with. It could get deeply uncomfortable.

"If we have a poor autumn, poor Six Nations, poor summer tour, then they're going to criticise me as a head coach anyway and I don't think they need to say it's anything to do with Red Bull," he says.

"My time, my focus, my connection with the players will be the same as it was before. The intention is to have as good an autumn as possible.

"Me being with Red Bull in the next couple of weeks and going to Austria to look at how they set up their facilities and academies isn't going to get us over the line against the All Blacks - but it can add an extra layer to our experiences as a coaching group just like learning from the players that went to the [British & Irish] Lions.

"It's not going to get us over the line and it's not going to stop us winning those games and the criticism will come either way."

Scotland's autumn squad will be named on 21 October and, with the exception of Huw Jones, it looks like a fairly clean bill of health. That's what everyone thought when the Six Nations was approaching, of course. Before too long, players started dropping like flies.

There will be a new defence coach in Lee Radford who replaces Steve Tandy, now the Wales coach.

Townsend is bullish on Scotland's prospects for the coming season.

"The level of collective experience, individual experience, ability, depth, what we've gone through, good and bad - we're in the best position that we've been in, in the time that I've been here," he claims.

That's a big call and, perhaps, it's Townsend making himself a hostage to fortune.

"When you look at other teams that have had success, there's a couple of common elements. One is player leadership, and we've now got some real leaders in our group. The other one is cap numbers, so now we're getting into the top four or five in the world for caps in our team.

"We know we're up against some brilliant teams again, but I feel that this team is in the best place ever, and I'm going to be a part of that for the next two years."

The autumn beckons. For Townsend, it's going to be one judgement day after another after another.