That brings an end to today's live coverage of the Wales module of the UK Covid-19 Inquiry from Cardiff, where we've heard from First Minister Mark Drakeford.
Tomorrow the past three weeks of evidence will be wrapped up, and we'll reflect any major lines on the BBC News website and app, as well as continuing coverage from the inquiry on BBC Wales Today and BBC Radio Wales.
Thanks for joining us today and over the past 11 days of evidence from Wales.
We'll soon be closing our coverage of today's UK
Covid inquiry in Wales. Here are some of the key points.
Criticism of Boris Johnson
Mark
Drakeford, the outgoing first minister for Wales, described former
prime minister Boris Johnson as an "absent manager" during the pandemic
He said Johnson was "not taking it as seriously as he should've been" in the early stages of the virus
Tensions between Westminster and devolved governments
Drakeford said he asked Johnson for meetings between the heads of the four nations but those were turned down
A lot of UK ministers were “afraid” of Nicola Sturgeon, because she had a "particular attitude about the future of Scotland," he said
The challenges of Covid policy in Wales
Drakeford became emotional talking about “the most difficult period of decision-making” - whether to cancel Christmas celebrations in 2020. He said the impact on Wales' most vulnerable children was "weighing heavily" on his shoulders
Wales was slower to ease restrictions than
England, Northern Ireland and Scotland. This helped reduce hospitalisations and
deaths, but led to a decline in mental health
Wales didn't follow England in introducing mandatory face
masks on public transport from 15 June 2020, because its chief medical
officer said that could lead to riskier behaviour
The introduction of international travel lists
in the summer of 2021 was "chaotic and shambolic", said Drakeford, because
they were constantly changing, adding Wales had had no say in that
'Drakeford refuses to admit wrongdoing,' say families
Steve Duffy
BBC Wales
Kirsten Heaven, counsel
for the Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice Cymru, says the group wants to see
Drakeford openly reflect on his handling of the pandemic and acknowledge
lessons learned.
She says the families
are "deeply disappointed that in all your evidence… you will not accept that
there was anything the Welsh government, in particular you, did wrong".
She continues: “You’ve refused to
accept that you should have read the signals of risk earlier, instead of
relying on hindsight.
"On asymptomatic transmission,
you’ve refused to accept a precautionary approach should have been taken,
you’ve refused to accept you should have cancelled mass gatherings, you’ve
refused to give an unconditional acceptance that you failed to plan for the
pandemic."
She adds Nicola
Sturgeon, Matt Hancock and Boris Johnson were all able to identify some things
they had got wrong when they gave evidence.
Drakeford says he
wants to thank the families for the opportunities to meet them.
"I don’t think the test
for me is whether I got everything right because I don’t think anybody could
possibly pass such a test," he says.
"What
I tried to do is to explain why I think the actions we took at the time were
reasonable in the context of the information that we had at the time."
Effective ban on care home visits 'heart-breaking'
Drakeford is
asked by the representative for Care Rights UK why "effectively a ban" on
visiting people in care homes remained until May 2021, despite acknowledgment
of the "heart-breaking list of restrictions" and a vocalised desire to lessen
them by the Welsh government.
Drakeford
emotionally recalls for the inquiry visiting his own mother for her 90th
birthday in February 2020, and not seeing her again "for many, many months".
"The
heartbreak that people felt from being separated from people who meant such a lot to them was very real," he says.
"Much as I
would have wished myself not to have been standing at a window trying to talk
to somebody, I also knew I would be a risk to them if I were to go in.
"That’s what
we were trying to balance."
He admits
there are things "to learn from and look at", adding: "I very much wish we could have
found a different formula for people to have been with their loved ones in
their final days or hours."
Watch: Drakeford an 'infrequent' WhatsApp user
Video content
Video caption: "I'm an infrequent user of WhatApp," Mark Drakesford tells UK Covid Inquiry"I'm an infrequent user of WhatApp," Mark Drakesford tells UK Covid Inquiry
Cummings' Barnard Castle trip led to loss of trust
Drakeford is
asked whether high-profile UK figures seemingly acting
outside of the Covid rules, such as Dominic Cummings trip to Barnard Castle,
impacted on trust in Welsh leadership.
He responds
by saying the UK government paid for research into the public’s trust
throughout the pandemic, with the Welsh government funding a booster sample in
Wales.
He says, at
the start of the pandemic, the trust levels were "more or less the same" for the
Welsh government and UK government, but at the time of Cummings’ trip the Welsh
government's trust level was sitting at about 70%, while the UK government's was "40% or lower".
"I think it’s
very, very much connected to a feeling that, in some parts of the UK, there were
people issuing instructions to others that they didn’t feel they needed to
follow themselves."
He adds he
can "absolutely guarantee" this was not the case in Wales.
You can watch Cummings' full statement from May 2020 below.
Video content
Video caption: Dominic Cummings: Full statement on lockdown rowDominic Cummings: Full statement on lockdown row
Why did schools remain closed in January 2021?
Cases remained very high in 2021 but a TAG scientific advice report on 7 January did not indicate a large proportion of transmission associated with schools, with fewer than 1% having more than 20 cases in the autumn term in of 2020.
Drakeford was asked why it was decided schools couldn’t fully reopen on 18 January 2021 and that they would be unlikely to return to face to face teaching until after half term in mid-February.
He says advice was both complex and inconsistent in this area: "It’s never that we had a definitive set of information about the impact of schools on transmission, on differences between different age groups or the effect of parents congregating at the school gates.
"At different points, the advice pushed you in different directions.”
The TAG report was not the “only advice in town.”
Other advice said something else.
He said both he and the education minister were served with legal documents from the NAHT (National Association of Head Teachers) that they would prosecute if the Welsh government reopened schools, as it was putting their members at serious risk and "they are not a frivolous organisation".
International travel lists 'chaotic and shambolic'
Drakeford
describes the introduction of international travel lists in the summer of 2021
as "chaotic and shambolic" because of "the pace at which changes are made".
The inquiry
is told Drakeford asked decisions on travel be taken on a UK-wide basis
and not without the agreement of devolved administrations.
"In this
area, the Welsh government only had theoretical powers of agency because most
people who travel abroad from Wales don’t do so from Wales and back to Wales," he says.
"So, in
effect, we simply had to do whatever the UK government decided."
He says
discussion with the Welsh government by the UK government was "pretty rudimentary,
often very late in the day”.
"I believe,
from the beginning to the end, more could have been done to limit the arrival of
coronavirus, and particularly new variants of coronavirus, in the UK through
international travel," says Drakeford.
"But the
instinct of the UK government was always to liberalise travel as much as
possible."
Criticising
the system in place, he continues: "The lists were constantly changing and the
criteria against which it was decided whether or not a country would be on a
list were changing as well."
Drakeford emotional over 'completely cancelling' Christmas
Drakeford is
grilled on why his cabinet were "on different pages" about what should happen
over Christmas 2020.
Vaughan Gething,
then health minister, was pushing for the planned post-Christmas lockdown to be
moved forward, while Drakeford wanted to delay.
“This was
the most difficult period of decision-making in the whole of the pandemic for
the Welsh government,” says Drakeford.
He says while Gething was focused on medical advice, he was looking at "other harms" such as damage to pre-Christmas trade.
But what was "weighing heavily" on Drakeford’s shoulders was the impact on children, he says.
He’s a
little emotional as he explains how, in his own constituency of Cardiff West, there is a “fantastic
school” with one of the highest rates of children on the “at risk list” in the
country.
“If those
children have Christmas, they have it in school. We are about to say to them,
Christmas is completely cancelled.
“I am lucky
that I don’t have many sleepless nights, even in these difficult days, but in
that moment I am really worried.”
“The advice
we are having from our medical colleagues is if we don’t act now, people who
would otherwise live will lose their lives,” he says.
BBCCopyright: BBC
Watch: 'No motivation' to make decisions for 'sake of being different'
Video content
Video caption: Covid Inquiry: 'I'm a believer in the United Kingdom' - DrakefordCovid Inquiry: 'I'm a believer in the United Kingdom' - Drakeford
Should the firebreak have come sooner?
Before the short afternoon break, Poole highlighted that we now know the second wave of Covid had a greater impact on
Wales than the first, with more deaths recorded.
He asks
Drakeford if the firebreak lockdown should have come sooner.
Drakeford
reiterates it was about "balancing harms", adding: "The harm that’s most
in our minds, other than the harm from the virus itself, is harm to children.
"We had
agreed as a cabinet that keeping schools open would be our top priority. We
were very committed to making sure a week of the firebreak coincided with half
terms, in order to minimise the impact on children’s lives."
He says he’s "not defending" the decision, but "explaining it as best I can".
Getty ImagesCopyright: Getty Images
Keeping schools open was a "top priority" in autumn 2020Image caption: Keeping schools open was a "top priority" in autumn 2020
Analysis
Was the Welsh government's cautious approach the right one?
Owain Clarke
BBC Wales health correspondent
In his evidence the first minister says it is true to say that the Welsh government adopted a "cautious approach" at many stages during the pandemic.
It meant Wales was slower than England, Northern Ireland and Scotland in easing many restrictions.
The implication was that ministers here were trying to do more to protect the public form the direct harms of Covid.
But they also led to a decline in mental health and wellbeing and an increase in educational and employment inequalities.
Analysis
What's up with WhatsApp?
Gareth Lewis
Political Editor, BBC Wales
The use of WhatsApp has been a recurring theme of the inquiry, whether dealing with the UK as a whole, Scotland or Wales.
Some of this revolves around whether the app is an appropriate platform for ministers and officials to use, or even if it is allowed under the rules.
There are concerns that something as serious as a pandemic should only be dealt with through official channels, so it is guaranteed to be a matter of public record.
Welsh ministers have argued no decisions were taken on the app.
But it's emerged that both Jeremy Miles and Eluned Morgan deleted messages; that some of former Health Minister Vaughan Gething's messages were wiped when his phone had a security rebuild and now, that messages - be that WhatsApp or text - from the first minister's Senedd phone for the first year of the pandemic are unrecoverable.
And after all that, we now have the first minister saying that he thinks the policy banning the use of WhatsApp for government business is wrong, in effect that it hasn't moved with the times.
UK refused firebreak help 'to put pressure on'
Expanding on
his plea for financial support for the “firebreak” lockdown from the UK government, Drakeford says all
the devolved nations asked for "a recognition that any part of the United
Kingdom could call on the treasury for support where it could be demonstrated
that the support was needed".
Drakeford says he was told by then chancellor Rishi Sunak that this was not "practically" possible.
"He was able
to do it practically as soon as England asked him to do it," says Drakeford, referencing
the later-announced lockdown announcement in England.
Drakeford
adds his understanding was "the policy
of the UK government was not to support the devolved administrations going further
than the UK government" and "never to be offering more help than has already
been offered to England".
Drakeford
says this is a "cynical decision to put pressure back on the first minister".
But Baroness
Hallett says she doesn’t necessarily read communication from the chancellor "in
the same way" but doesn’t have time to dwell on it.
The inquiry is taking a 10-minute break and will resume at 15:15, but we'll continue to update you on what's been said.
What were the barriers to a firebreak lockdown?
Poole puts to Drakeford that, by mid-September 2020, a "firebreak" lockdown was being
urged by Sage due to a rising R-rate - the average number of people infected by a single person with the virus.
He asks the first minister
what the Welsh government’s thinking was at this point.
Drakeford
says the administration faced "a series of headwinds", such as Boris Johnson being "actively opposed" to another national lockdown and declining to hold a requested Cobra meeting on the topic.
There were
also financial barriers associated with this, as well as how to make such a measure "acceptable to the public".
Finally, he
says ministers were "more aware" about the "balance of harms" that needed to be
considered before implementing another full lockdown.
Why was Wales later than England on face mask rules?
Drakeford is asked why Wales didn't follow England in introducing mandatory face masks on public transport from 15 June 2020.
He says Wales' chief medical officer had advised not to put weight behind face coverings as they led to people doing more risky things.
Drakeford says he felt it important to support that position and going against Dr Atherton would've undermined him and given his advice "less weight" in other contexts.
Wales made face masks mandatory on public transport on 27 July.
On Atherton's change in advice, Drakeford says: "I think he’d moved away from the argument that it would do more harm than good. He was sceptical that it would do any good."
Wales was not ‘slavishly following the science’
Baroness
Hallett puts to Drakeford that he was "slavishly following the science", rather
than being guided by it as he previously told the inquiry.
Drakeford
says he was "constantly being asked by different groups to make an exception
for them" when it came to the rules, and his “strongest defence” was always
that he was following medical advice.
"I don’t think
we were slavishly following the science because we were in vigorous discussion
with the chief medical officer, testing him and asking him," he adds.
"His
professional advice was always clear – you can do it, but you would be doing
more harm than good."
Analysis
Will Drakeford face more questions about his WhatsApp?
Gareth Lewis
Political Editor, BBC Wales
Mark Drakeford has resisted calls for the past two weeks during first minister's questions to talk about his use of WhatsApp during the pandemic.
To the consternation of Welsh Conservatives and Plaid Cymru he said he didn't want to prejudice the inquiry.
What will they make of his answers then, now that they have them?
He told the inquiry he'd used WhatsApp only 11 times during the pandemic, including once to say thank you and once to complain he couldn't hear Senedd proceedings.
But two big buts... Drakeford accepted that using WhatsApp to discuss Welsh government business was prohibited but that the policy was wrong - that it didn't make sense during a pandemic.
And we learned that it hasn't been possible to recover messages from his own Senedd-issued mobile from July 2018 to March 2021.
It's his FMQs swansong next Tuesday before he stands down. Will the opposition bring up WhatsApp again?
‘UK ministers were afraid of Nicola Sturgeon’
Getty ImagesCopyright: Getty Images
Drakeford says Sturgeon was a "formidable politician"Image caption: Drakeford says Sturgeon was a "formidable politician"
Drakeford
says he had the "highest regard" for the first ministers of Scotland and Northern
Ireland during the pandemic, adding "they were never anything but collegiate people".
He says
there was "always anxiousness" when it came to dealings with Nicola Sturgeon,
Scotland’s first minister at the time, because she had a "particular attitude
about the future of Scotland" which "coloured" their attitude towards her.
Drakeford
adds Sturgeon was a "formidable politician" and "a lot of UK ministers were afraid
of her".
"That was not
true of the prime minister… [but] he didn’t want to give the impression the
prime minister of the UK was somehow on a par with first ministers of other
nations," he says.
Drakeford 'only used WhatsApp 11 times'
On informal messaging, Drakeford says he only used WhatsApp on 11 occasions "in the whole of the many months of the pandemic.
"I don’t believe I used WhatsApp to communicate with the first minster of Scotland, text messages certainly," he says.
"One [WhatsApp message] said 'thanks' and another was [when] I complained about sound in the Senedd, when I was meant to be answering a question. I was a very infrequent user of WhatsApp, a much more frequent user of text messages."
He said the policy regarding use of informal messaging for government business was no doubt a sound one in 2009 but in the circumstances of dealing with the pandemic, "the policy did not make sense".
He says text messages weren't used very often in policy making and there were other more informative sources which "showed the workings out".
Drakeford says it didn’t occur to him the need to speak to colleagues about the need to keep messages, for a future inquiry.
He doesn’t believe they were deleted "with a view to escape the gaze of others" or an inquiry.
He says he used only one Senedd issued phone and handed it over to make any messages available.
Live Reporting
Catriona Aitken and John Arkless
All times stated are UK
-
Mark
Drakeford, the outgoing first minister for Wales, described former
prime minister Boris Johnson as an "absent manager" during the pandemic
-
He said Johnson was "not taking it as seriously as he should've been" in the early stages of the virus
-
Drakeford said he asked Johnson for meetings between the heads of the four nations but those were turned down
-
A lot of UK ministers were “afraid” of Nicola Sturgeon, because she had a "particular attitude about the future of Scotland," he said
-
Drakeford became emotional talking about “the most difficult period of decision-making” - whether to cancel Christmas celebrations in 2020. He said the impact on Wales' most vulnerable children was "weighing heavily" on his shoulders
-
Wales was slower to ease restrictions than
England, Northern Ireland and Scotland. This helped reduce hospitalisations and
deaths, but led to a decline in mental health
-
Wales didn't follow England in introducing mandatory face
masks on public transport from 15 June 2020, because its chief medical
officer said that could lead to riskier behaviour
-
The introduction of international travel lists
in the summer of 2021 was "chaotic and shambolic", said Drakeford, because
they were constantly changing, adding Wales had had no say in that
Video caption: "I'm an infrequent user of WhatApp," Mark Drakesford tells UK Covid Inquiry"I'm an infrequent user of WhatApp," Mark Drakesford tells UK Covid Inquiry Video caption: Dominic Cummings: Full statement on lockdown rowDominic Cummings: Full statement on lockdown row 
BBCCopyright: BBC Video caption: Covid Inquiry: 'I'm a believer in the United Kingdom' - DrakefordCovid Inquiry: 'I'm a believer in the United Kingdom' - Drakeford 
Getty ImagesCopyright: Getty Images Keeping schools open was a "top priority" in autumn 2020Image caption: Keeping schools open was a "top priority" in autumn 2020 Analysis
Analysis Analysis 
Getty ImagesCopyright: Getty Images Drakeford says Sturgeon was a "formidable politician"Image caption: Drakeford says Sturgeon was a "formidable politician"
Latest PostThanks and goodbye
That brings an end to today's live coverage of the Wales module of the UK Covid-19 Inquiry from Cardiff, where we've heard from First Minister Mark Drakeford.
Tomorrow the past three weeks of evidence will be wrapped up, and we'll reflect any major lines on the BBC News website and app, as well as continuing coverage from the inquiry on BBC Wales Today and BBC Radio Wales.
Thanks for joining us today and over the past 11 days of evidence from Wales.
You'll be able to read a round-up of the days evidence on the Wales section of the website shortly.
What we learnt today
We'll soon be closing our coverage of today's UK Covid inquiry in Wales. Here are some of the key points.
Criticism of Boris Johnson
Tensions between Westminster and devolved governments
The challenges of Covid policy in Wales
'Drakeford refuses to admit wrongdoing,' say families
Steve Duffy
BBC Wales
Kirsten Heaven, counsel for the Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice Cymru, says the group wants to see Drakeford openly reflect on his handling of the pandemic and acknowledge lessons learned.
She says the families are "deeply disappointed that in all your evidence… you will not accept that there was anything the Welsh government, in particular you, did wrong".
She continues: “You’ve refused to accept that you should have read the signals of risk earlier, instead of relying on hindsight.
"On asymptomatic transmission, you’ve refused to accept a precautionary approach should have been taken, you’ve refused to accept you should have cancelled mass gatherings, you’ve refused to give an unconditional acceptance that you failed to plan for the pandemic."
She adds Nicola Sturgeon, Matt Hancock and Boris Johnson were all able to identify some things they had got wrong when they gave evidence.
Drakeford says he wants to thank the families for the opportunities to meet them.
"I don’t think the test for me is whether I got everything right because I don’t think anybody could possibly pass such a test," he says.
"What I tried to do is to explain why I think the actions we took at the time were reasonable in the context of the information that we had at the time."
Effective ban on care home visits 'heart-breaking'
Drakeford is asked by the representative for Care Rights UK why "effectively a ban" on visiting people in care homes remained until May 2021, despite acknowledgment of the "heart-breaking list of restrictions" and a vocalised desire to lessen them by the Welsh government.
Drakeford emotionally recalls for the inquiry visiting his own mother for her 90th birthday in February 2020, and not seeing her again "for many, many months".
"The heartbreak that people felt from being separated from people who meant such a lot to them was very real," he says.
"Much as I would have wished myself not to have been standing at a window trying to talk to somebody, I also knew I would be a risk to them if I were to go in.
"That’s what we were trying to balance."
He admits there are things "to learn from and look at", adding: "I very much wish we could have found a different formula for people to have been with their loved ones in their final days or hours."
Watch: Drakeford an 'infrequent' WhatsApp user
Video content
Cummings' Barnard Castle trip led to loss of trust
Drakeford is asked whether high-profile UK figures seemingly acting outside of the Covid rules, such as Dominic Cummings trip to Barnard Castle, impacted on trust in Welsh leadership.
He responds by saying the UK government paid for research into the public’s trust throughout the pandemic, with the Welsh government funding a booster sample in Wales.
He says, at the start of the pandemic, the trust levels were "more or less the same" for the Welsh government and UK government, but at the time of Cummings’ trip the Welsh government's trust level was sitting at about 70%, while the UK government's was "40% or lower".
"I think it’s very, very much connected to a feeling that, in some parts of the UK, there were people issuing instructions to others that they didn’t feel they needed to follow themselves."
He adds he can "absolutely guarantee" this was not the case in Wales.
You can watch Cummings' full statement from May 2020 below.
Video content
Why did schools remain closed in January 2021?
Cases remained very high in 2021 but a TAG scientific advice report on 7 January did not indicate a large proportion of transmission associated with schools, with fewer than 1% having more than 20 cases in the autumn term in of 2020.
Drakeford was asked why it was decided schools couldn’t fully reopen on 18 January 2021 and that they would be unlikely to return to face to face teaching until after half term in mid-February.
He says advice was both complex and inconsistent in this area: "It’s never that we had a definitive set of information about the impact of schools on transmission, on differences between different age groups or the effect of parents congregating at the school gates.
"At different points, the advice pushed you in different directions.” The TAG report was not the “only advice in town.”
Other advice said something else.
He said both he and the education minister were served with legal documents from the NAHT (National Association of Head Teachers) that they would prosecute if the Welsh government reopened schools, as it was putting their members at serious risk and "they are not a frivolous organisation".
International travel lists 'chaotic and shambolic'
Drakeford describes the introduction of international travel lists in the summer of 2021 as "chaotic and shambolic" because of "the pace at which changes are made".
The inquiry is told Drakeford asked decisions on travel be taken on a UK-wide basis and not without the agreement of devolved administrations.
"In this area, the Welsh government only had theoretical powers of agency because most people who travel abroad from Wales don’t do so from Wales and back to Wales," he says.
"So, in effect, we simply had to do whatever the UK government decided."
He says discussion with the Welsh government by the UK government was "pretty rudimentary, often very late in the day”.
"I believe, from the beginning to the end, more could have been done to limit the arrival of coronavirus, and particularly new variants of coronavirus, in the UK through international travel," says Drakeford.
"But the instinct of the UK government was always to liberalise travel as much as possible."
Criticising the system in place, he continues: "The lists were constantly changing and the criteria against which it was decided whether or not a country would be on a list were changing as well."
Drakeford emotional over 'completely cancelling' Christmas
Drakeford is grilled on why his cabinet were "on different pages" about what should happen over Christmas 2020.
Vaughan Gething, then health minister, was pushing for the planned post-Christmas lockdown to be moved forward, while Drakeford wanted to delay.
“This was the most difficult period of decision-making in the whole of the pandemic for the Welsh government,” says Drakeford.
He says while Gething was focused on medical advice, he was looking at "other harms" such as damage to pre-Christmas trade.
But what was "weighing heavily" on Drakeford’s shoulders was the impact on children, he says.
He’s a little emotional as he explains how, in his own constituency of Cardiff West, there is a “fantastic school” with one of the highest rates of children on the “at risk list” in the country.
“If those children have Christmas, they have it in school. We are about to say to them, Christmas is completely cancelled.
“I am lucky that I don’t have many sleepless nights, even in these difficult days, but in that moment I am really worried.”
But, by the end of their next cabinet meeting, Drakeford had been persuaded that immediate action is the best option.
“The advice we are having from our medical colleagues is if we don’t act now, people who would otherwise live will lose their lives,” he says.
Watch: 'No motivation' to make decisions for 'sake of being different'
Video content
Should the firebreak have come sooner?
Before the short afternoon break, Poole highlighted that we now know the second wave of Covid had a greater impact on Wales than the first, with more deaths recorded.
He asks Drakeford if the firebreak lockdown should have come sooner.
Drakeford reiterates it was about "balancing harms", adding: "The harm that’s most in our minds, other than the harm from the virus itself, is harm to children.
"We had agreed as a cabinet that keeping schools open would be our top priority. We were very committed to making sure a week of the firebreak coincided with half terms, in order to minimise the impact on children’s lives."
He says he’s "not defending" the decision, but "explaining it as best I can".
Was the Welsh government's cautious approach the right one?
Owain Clarke
BBC Wales health correspondent
In his evidence the first minister says it is true to say that the Welsh government adopted a "cautious approach" at many stages during the pandemic.
It meant Wales was slower than England, Northern Ireland and Scotland in easing many restrictions.
The implication was that ministers here were trying to do more to protect the public form the direct harms of Covid.
But could this approach have led to other harms?
The Welsh government's own scientific advisors last year pointed out that the restrictions did help reduce hospitalisations, deaths and pressure on the NHS.
But they also led to a decline in mental health and wellbeing and an increase in educational and employment inequalities.
What's up with WhatsApp?
Gareth Lewis
Political Editor, BBC Wales
The use of WhatsApp has been a recurring theme of the inquiry, whether dealing with the UK as a whole, Scotland or Wales.
Some of this revolves around whether the app is an appropriate platform for ministers and officials to use, or even if it is allowed under the rules.
There are concerns that something as serious as a pandemic should only be dealt with through official channels, so it is guaranteed to be a matter of public record.
Welsh ministers have argued no decisions were taken on the app.
But it's emerged that both Jeremy Miles and Eluned Morgan deleted messages; that some of former Health Minister Vaughan Gething's messages were wiped when his phone had a security rebuild and now, that messages - be that WhatsApp or text - from the first minister's Senedd phone for the first year of the pandemic are unrecoverable.
And after all that, we now have the first minister saying that he thinks the policy banning the use of WhatsApp for government business is wrong, in effect that it hasn't moved with the times.
UK refused firebreak help 'to put pressure on'
Expanding on his plea for financial support for the “firebreak” lockdown from the UK government, Drakeford says all the devolved nations asked for "a recognition that any part of the United Kingdom could call on the treasury for support where it could be demonstrated that the support was needed".
Drakeford says he was told by then chancellor Rishi Sunak that this was not "practically" possible.
"He was able to do it practically as soon as England asked him to do it," says Drakeford, referencing the later-announced lockdown announcement in England.
Drakeford adds his understanding was "the policy of the UK government was not to support the devolved administrations going further than the UK government" and "never to be offering more help than has already been offered to England".
Drakeford says this is a "cynical decision to put pressure back on the first minister".
But Baroness Hallett says she doesn’t necessarily read communication from the chancellor "in the same way" but doesn’t have time to dwell on it.
The inquiry is taking a 10-minute break and will resume at 15:15, but we'll continue to update you on what's been said.
What were the barriers to a firebreak lockdown?
Poole puts to Drakeford that, by mid-September 2020, a "firebreak" lockdown was being urged by Sage due to a rising R-rate - the average number of people infected by a single person with the virus.
He asks the first minister what the Welsh government’s thinking was at this point.
Drakeford says the administration faced "a series of headwinds", such as Boris Johnson being "actively opposed" to another national lockdown and declining to hold a requested Cobra meeting on the topic.
There were also financial barriers associated with this, as well as how to make such a measure "acceptable to the public".
Finally, he says ministers were "more aware" about the "balance of harms" that needed to be considered before implementing another full lockdown.
A two-week lockdown was later announced in Wales, in October 2020.
Why was Wales later than England on face mask rules?
Drakeford is asked why Wales didn't follow England in introducing mandatory face masks on public transport from 15 June 2020.
He says Wales' chief medical officer had advised not to put weight behind face coverings as they led to people doing more risky things.
Drakeford says he felt it important to support that position and going against Dr Atherton would've undermined him and given his advice "less weight" in other contexts.
Wales made face masks mandatory on public transport on 27 July.
On Atherton's change in advice, Drakeford says: "I think he’d moved away from the argument that it would do more harm than good. He was sceptical that it would do any good."
Wales was not ‘slavishly following the science’
Baroness Hallett puts to Drakeford that he was "slavishly following the science", rather than being guided by it as he previously told the inquiry.
Drakeford says he was "constantly being asked by different groups to make an exception for them" when it came to the rules, and his “strongest defence” was always that he was following medical advice.
"I don’t think we were slavishly following the science because we were in vigorous discussion with the chief medical officer, testing him and asking him," he adds.
"His professional advice was always clear – you can do it, but you would be doing more harm than good."
Will Drakeford face more questions about his WhatsApp?
Gareth Lewis
Political Editor, BBC Wales
Mark Drakeford has resisted calls for the past two weeks during first minister's questions to talk about his use of WhatsApp during the pandemic.
To the consternation of Welsh Conservatives and Plaid Cymru he said he didn't want to prejudice the inquiry.
What will they make of his answers then, now that they have them?
He told the inquiry he'd used WhatsApp only 11 times during the pandemic, including once to say thank you and once to complain he couldn't hear Senedd proceedings.
But two big buts... Drakeford accepted that using WhatsApp to discuss Welsh government business was prohibited but that the policy was wrong - that it didn't make sense during a pandemic.
And we learned that it hasn't been possible to recover messages from his own Senedd-issued mobile from July 2018 to March 2021.
It's his FMQs swansong next Tuesday before he stands down. Will the opposition bring up WhatsApp again?
‘UK ministers were afraid of Nicola Sturgeon’
Drakeford says he had the "highest regard" for the first ministers of Scotland and Northern Ireland during the pandemic, adding "they were never anything but collegiate people".
He says there was "always anxiousness" when it came to dealings with Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister at the time, because she had a "particular attitude about the future of Scotland" which "coloured" their attitude towards her.
Drakeford adds Sturgeon was a "formidable politician" and "a lot of UK ministers were afraid of her".
"That was not true of the prime minister… [but] he didn’t want to give the impression the prime minister of the UK was somehow on a par with first ministers of other nations," he says.
Drakeford 'only used WhatsApp 11 times'
On informal messaging, Drakeford says he only used WhatsApp on 11 occasions "in the whole of the many months of the pandemic.
"I don’t believe I used WhatsApp to communicate with the first minster of Scotland, text messages certainly," he says.
"One [WhatsApp message] said 'thanks' and another was [when] I complained about sound in the Senedd, when I was meant to be answering a question. I was a very infrequent user of WhatsApp, a much more frequent user of text messages."
He said the policy regarding use of informal messaging for government business was no doubt a sound one in 2009 but in the circumstances of dealing with the pandemic, "the policy did not make sense".
He says text messages weren't used very often in policy making and there were other more informative sources which "showed the workings out".
Drakeford says it didn’t occur to him the need to speak to colleagues about the need to keep messages, for a future inquiry.
He doesn’t believe they were deleted "with a view to escape the gaze of others" or an inquiry. He says he used only one Senedd issued phone and handed it over to make any messages available.