PM defends 'tough decision' over winter fuel cut

The prime minister has told the BBC his new government is "going to have to be unpopular" as he defended his "tough" decision to cut winter fuel payments.

Speaking on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg in his first major interview in Downing Street, Sir Keir Starmer said he was determined to deliver change but this meant having to "do the difficult things now".

Challenged on his plan to remove winter fuel payments from most pensioners while also awarding above inflation pay rises to some public sector workers, he said he was "fixing the foundations" and those in need would still get assistance.

He said: "When we talk about tough decisions, I’m talking about... the things the last government ran away from."

• InDepth: Starmer's 'blame the Tories' strategy will not hold forever

In the wide-ranging interview in No 10's Cabinet Room, Sir Keir also:

• expressed concern about the rise of the far right after the recent riots, but denied the UK was a racist country

• said he was frustrated by the pace of building safety works in the week of the final Grenfell report, promising work would be accelerated but not giving a specific date for completion

• rejected a suggestion his decision to end some arms sales to Israel had made the UK unpopular with the US

• said his removal of a portrait of former Tory PM Margaret Thatcher from his study wasn't personal - he just doesn't like people "staring down" at him

• argued reform was "the only way out of" problems faced by the NHS.

On his plan for winter fuel payments, Sir Keir would not be drawn on whether Labour MPs who voted against it this week would be suspended from the parliamentary party, saying it was "a matter for the chief whip".

But, he added, "every Labour MP was elected on the same mandate as I was, which was to deliver the change that we need for the country".

The payments of between £200 and £300 a year were paid to more than 10 million pensioners, but were axed for all but the poorest by Chancellor Rachel Reeves in July.

Among the public sector pay settlements reached in recent weeks were a 22% pay rise over two years for junior doctors and 4.5% for train drivers in 2024/25.

No 10 faces a potential rebellion in Parliament on Tuesday when there will be a Commons vote on the decision to scrap the payments.

Labour MP Rachael Maskell has said she will abstain to signal her "complete dissent".

She told BBC Breakfast that the "economic case" for the cut had been "shredded" adding that the amount saved would be a very small percentage of the Treasury's spending.

Meanwhile, trade union bosses have criticised the government's decision to withdraw winter fuel payments from millions of pensioners, saying it was the "wrong choice".

Unite's Sharon Graham told the BBC at the TUC's annual conference in Brighton that the government needed to be ''big enough and brave enough'' to admit they have made a mistake.

Sir Keir said the cut was necessary because of the state of the country’s finances, accusing previous governments of avoiding confronting issues like the cost of winter fuel payments.

"I’m convinced that because they’ve run away from difficult decisions, we haven't got the change we need for the country," he said.

He said he was "absolutely convinced we will only deliver that change, I’m absolutely determined we will, if we do the difficult things now. I know they’re unpopular, I know they’re difficult, of course they’re tough choices."

"Popular decisions aren’t tough, they are easy," he added.

Asked about the cut in winter fuel payments, Health Secretary Wes Streeting told Sky News: "I'm not remotely happy about it.

"And I'm not remotely happy about having to say to some of my constituents, I'm sorry that I'm going into work this week to vote for something that will take money away from you."

However, he added he hoped the public would "take some reassurance that this isn't a government that ducks difficult decisions or pretends you can spend money you don't have".

Sir Keir’s personal ratings have fallen since he took office, with the decision to axe winter fuel payments, repeated warnings about the state of the economy, and pressure on government spending ahead of the Budget at the end of October.

As the annual TUC Congress opened in Brighton, TUC General Secretary Paul Nowak said he had “real concerns” about the planned cut in winter fuel payments.

He said the government had inherited a “toxic economic legacy” from the Conservatives, but he still hoped to "see proper support for pensioners” in the Budget, "particularly those that are not entitled to pension tax credit but are not well off by any stretch of imagination".

"I don’t want any pensioner going into winter frightened to turn on the heating," he added.

Mr Nowak also said he wanted the prime minister's comment last week that "those with the broadest shoulders" should "do the heaviest lifting" to be "played out in the Budget”.

Sharon Graham, general secretary of trade union Unite and a long-time critic of Sir Keir - said the government needed to be ''big enough and brave enough'' to admit it had made a mistake.

''They shouldn't be picking the pockets of pensioners and at the same time leaving the very rich and wealthy untouched," she said, calling for "different choices" including a wealth tax.

Elsewhere in his interview, Sir Keir reflected on the recent riots, which broke out in parts of the country following the deaths of three children during an attack in Southport in July.

"I don't think we're a racist country, I think we're a country of decent people," he said, adding the people who came out afterwards to clear up and rebuild were "the real face of Britain".

Sir Keir also spoke about the NHS in England, saying it had been been "broken" by successive Conservative-led governments - and the state it is now in is "unforgiveable".

He said a review of the health service by Lord Darzi, to be published on Thursday finds changes to the NHS were "hopelessly misconceived" and too many children "are being let down".

"It’s the last government that broke the NHS," Sir Keir said. "Our job now through Lord Darzi is to properly understand how that came about and bring about the reforms."

In response to Sir Keir's comments, shadow health secretary Victoria Atkins said after 14 years in opposition, "Labour's instinct is to politicise children's health, rather than provide solutions and reform our NHS".

With additional reporting by Jemma Crew

Sign up for the Off Air with Laura K newsletter to get Laura Kuenssberg's expert insight and insider stories every week, emailed directly to you.