Oliver Smith
Reporting from Portcullis House

What a day it's been here in Westminster, with that mammoth select committee session lasting more than five hours.

There’s been some pretty extraordinary testimony - from former postmasters talking about the delays to compensation and the impact that’s having on their lives, to the "he said, she said" row around Henry Staunton’s sacking that continues to bubble away.

Reporters and producers (including myself) waited outside Portcullis House to hear the reaction of the man, and campaigner, who has been instrumental in bringing the Post Office scandal to light.

Former sub-postmaster Alan Bates emerged a little earlier and told us: "That was interesting wasn’t it!"

"It’s more wishful thinking... let's see what really happens," he went on. "There’s plenty of words, let's see what actually happens."

He described the Staunton row as a "big distraction" too, saying: "The key thing is, we’ve got to get money out to victims and we’ve got to get it out now."

Sam Hancock
Live reporter

It's been a varied session in front of MPs, with former postmasters, lawyers and Post Office executives all giving evidence. Here's a summary of what we heard:

• The total bill for compensation to the victims of the Post Office scandal will top the £1bn currently set aside - only one-third of victims have submitted claims so far
• Other board members would have resigned if the former chair, Henry Staunton, was not sacked over his alleged conduct, according to Carl Creswell of the Business Department
• Campaigner Alan Bates said that the process of getting redress is not speeding up. He also suggested that the Post Office is a "dead duck" and "money pit" for taxpayers
• Full and final redress might not happen for up to two more years, lawyers acting on behalf of some sub-postmasters said
• Staunton repeated his allegation that, through a "nod wink" understanding, he was asked by former Business Department permanent secretary Sarah Munby to slow compensation for wrongly convicted sub-postmasters - Munby has denied this
• Post Office chief executive Nick Read "categorically" denied being asked to slow down payments
• Staunton also claimed that an investigation alleged to be into his conduct was actually into Read - neither Read nor the Post Office have confirmed this

If you want to keep reading about how today unfolded, head here, but for now - today's live coverage was written by Lora Jones, Thomas Mackintosh, Alexandra Binley, Jacqueline Howard, Esme Stallard, Gianluca Avagnina and Oliver Smith. It was edited by Owen Amos, Barbara Tasch, Emma Owen and me.

Image source, Getty Images

During his evidence, Henry Staunton was asked multiple times about the compensation that's available for former sub-postmasters - as well as his claims about why it's taking so long to be paid out.

More than 2,700 sub-postmasters have been paid compensation so far, to the tune of £160m collectively. But when the government's promised law to overturn all convictions becomes a reality, hundreds more will be eligible for a payout.

There is no single scheme for sub-postmasters to apply to for compensation. Instead, there are three separate schemes, each aimed at groups of victims with different experiences of the scandal.

They include:

• The Overturned Convictions Scheme, for those whose convictions are overturned
• The Group Litigation Order Scheme, set up to ensure they received additional money to reflect the gravity of the situations they faced
• The Horizon Shortfall Scheme, for sub-postmasters who weren't convicted or part of the GLO court action - it's administered by the Post Office

Victims whose convictions have been overturned can choose to take a fast-tracked £600,000 settlement, but if they feel they are entitled to more, they can choose to enter into a negotiation instead. All those eligible are entitled to the "interim" payment, which Post Office minister Kevin Hollinrake has announced will increase - from £163,000 to £450,000.

Image source, Parliament TV

Henry Staunton, the Post Office's former chairman who's been locked in a public spat with Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch for more than a week, has wrapped up his evidence to MPs on the Business and Trade Select Committee.

Here's a flavour of what was said:

• He shocked MPs by claiming an investigation - alleged by both Post Office and government employees to have been into Staunton - is actually into current Post Office CEO Nick Read
• Staunton claimed that within an 80-page document - a page of which he showed to MPs, with many lines redacted - it was said Read wanted wanted to resign from the Post Office because he was unhappy with his pay
• Earlier in the day, we heard that Read and other Post Office executives earnt 20 times more than sub-postmasters through their bonuses alone
• Staunton also stuck to his central allegation that, through a "nod wink" understanding, he was asked by former permanent secretary at the Business Department Sarah Munby to slow compensation for wrongly convicted sub-postmasters - Munby has denied this
• On the basis of the "nod wink", Staunton was asked whether Munby may have a different interpretation of the conversation, but he insisted there wasn't much room for misinterpretation
• He also claimed he was the subject of a "smear campaign" for speaking out on matters of public concern, and that he had pushed for greater compensation for sub-postmasters who'd had their convictions overturned

Image source, Parliament TV

Rounding off Staunton's evidence session, chair of the business committee Liam Byrne sums up what's been said and describes some of the former Post Office chair's comments as "bombshells".

Byrne says Staunton gave MPs "bombshell revelations about a boardroom that is in disarray, a chief executive [Nick Read] that is under investigation and a chief executive who has sought to resign, even though he told us on oath that he has not".

He adds that Staunton stands by the assertions he's made to the media - and clarifies, again, that Staunton was under the impression that after his meeting with civil servant Sarah Munby he was to slow down the pace of the compensation scheme.

The hearing ends with Byrne calling "order, order" as is customary.

Carrying on with his evidence, Henry Staunton - former Post Office chair - says that during his time there he always tried "to do the right thing by the company".

Tory MP Antony Higginbotham asks if Staunton was in the role for "personal financial benefit".

He responds by saying he was "not in this for the money one jot". Staunton goes on, saying he was paid £150,000 while at the Post office - half of what he was paid at previous roles and for "three times the work," he adds.

Staunton is now asked whether it might be time for the Post Office business model "to go", if his claims about the CEO being under investigation are true.

He says it's a good question and he thinks there should be a demutualization of the Post Office, in which postmasters and sub-postmasters have a stake in the business.

He notes that postmasters' pay is not sufficient in the current model.

Staunton says he hasn't quite worked out the specifics of how he thinks it should work, but that in his vision there are more postmaster directors on the board.

Image source, Parliament TV

Earlier, MPs on the Business and Trade Select Committee were told by other witnesses that an internal investigation was under way into Henry Staunton over his alleged behaviour while he chaired the company.

Staunton is now asked if he can confirm this - but in a strange twist, he alleges there is actually an investigation into the chief executive Nick Read.

MPs appear baffled and say they'll have to get clarity on this from Read and the Post Office.

Staunton says that Read had fallen out with his HR director, who went on to produce a "speak up document, which was 80 pages thick". He claims that the report says Read "was going to resign because he was unhappy with his pay".

The MPs and audience gasp - earlier we heard that some sub-postmasters' annual salary was 20 times lower than the bonuses Read and other execs received.

It's again said that clarification of these claims will be sought.

Henry Staunton tells MPs he completely disputes allegations of being "erratic".

He admits things in the closing stages of his chairmanship of the Post Office "did get very difficult" - but he adds: "I am not an erratic individual."

Staunton goes on: "If I had been when it comes to business, I wouldn't have been the chairman, or deputy chairman or main board director of the companies I have."

Tory MP Jonathan Gullis then jokes there might be a sequel to ITV's Mr Bates vs the Post office, which he says could be called "Mr Staunton and Mr Read vs the Post Office". There are laughs in the room.

Staunton is the former chairman of retailers WH Smith and BrightHouse, as well as the Post Office.

We're still hearing from Henry Staunton, former chair of the Post Office, who's speaking to MPs on the Business and Trade Select Committee.

Staunton says sub-postmasters lacked trust in the justice system after what they'd been through, and so when the government's compensation offer of £600,000 came through last September for those who'd had their wrongful convictions for theft and false accounting overturned - there was a low take-up rate.

He says he had suggested to Nick Read - the Post Office CEO we heard give evidence earlier - that the offer be around the £1m mark.

Staunton says his argument was that the offer needed to be considered generous rather than "tight-fisted and anxious" - and he thought the public would be on side.

Liam Byrne, chair of the Business and Trade Select Committee, focuses on the ongoing row between Staunton and Badenoch in his initial questions.

Remember: Staunton claims he had a conversation with top civil servant Sarah Munby last year, in which she asked him to delay compensation payments to former sub-postmasters, but Munby denies this and has said as much in a public letter to Badenoch.

Asked if he believes Munby has misremembered what happened, Staunton responds: "There are a lot of issues going around about misremembering, lying... and that's not what I want to get into. I am just explaining what I know."

Bryne tries to pursue the point and suggests Munby "may have walked away from your conversation with a different interpretation to you".

"I don't think there is much room for misinterpretation," Staunton says.

Image source, gov.uk

Staunton's asked by Labour MP Ian Lavery what it has been like to have his reputation "trashed" in recent weeks (following his public row with Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch) - despite his wealth of experience with other public companies.

Staunton pauses to ask if he can read out a short statement, giving his version of events and offering his point of view on the scandal. He tells MPs:

Staunton says the ITV drama Mr Bates vs the Post Office - which put the spotlight back on this scandal at the beginning of the year - "put a rocket under things" that were moving "far too slowly".

He says he believes more could be done to make the compensation scheme more generous and less bureaucratic, adding he feels he has spoken out on matters of public concern and has since "been the subject of a smear campaign".

Staunton, in the hot seat, is talking about conversations concerning the Post Office's financial situation while he was the company's chair.

He says it was his belief that the Post Office needed around five years to overcome the business challenges ahead of it, but was told by former permanent secretary to the Business Department Sarah Munby "this is no time for long term planning". .

Staunton continues, saying there were three options for reducing costs - referring to these as "levers". They are, he says:

• the Post Office inquiry, and
• the compensation being paid to wronged postmasters, and
• replacing the Horizon software.

Staunton agrees he came away from that conversation under the impression that he should look to reduce costs in all three "levers".

Emma Simpson
Business correspondent

Image source, Parliament TV

The former chairman of the Post Office is now appearing before MPs as part of ongoing work into the issue of compensation for the victims of the Horizon IT scandal.

It's the first time Henry Staunton has publicly spoken since his row with Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch over claims he was advised to delay compensation payments to sub-postmasters who were wrongly prosecuted.

The Business and Trade Select Committee has been looking into why so many sub-postmasters are still waiting for their full and final compensation.

More than a dozen witnesses had already been called before Staunton was added to the list.

The city veteran was fired last month, just over a year after his appointment as Post Office chairman.

In an explosive interview with a Sunday newspaper, he said a senior civil servant had advised him to stall spending on compensation ahead of the election.

That, along with a number of other claims - including how and why he was fired - prompted a furious response from Badenoch, who accused him of making baseless allegations in a blatant attempt to seek revenge.

Nick Read is now being asked about the Post Office's relationship with public relations firm TB Cardew.

Read says the Post Office first enlisted their services in 2019, then again in 2022, and does not dispute the going rate of £15,000 per month.

He confirms the firm has assisted the Post Office with preparations for the committee today.

Read says the Post Office is a billion-pound business and has commercial arrangements with many organisations.

Labour MP Ian Lavery asks all of four men if "they are untouchable".

Tidswell, the chair of the Post Office's remediation committee, says "absolutely not", adding "if people are not complying with their duties then they are accountable".

"I expect everyone in the organisation to be accountable," Tidswell tells MPs.

Another executive, Simon Recaldin, then answers: "I am challenged regularly, I am very touchable".

"So am I," Nick Read adds.

Read is now asked who in the company are the so-called "untouchables".

Labour MP Ian Lavery's question refers to the news, first reported by the Times, external over the weekend, that the Post Office had hired investigators, including some ex-police, to look at its own staff's previous work investigating the Horizon scandal.

There are claims the investigators were referred to internally as the “untouchables”

But Read tells MPs "it's not an expression I'm aware is used in the organisation [the Post Office]", and that he believes there's been a "misunderstanding" around the term.

"I don't know where it comes from," he adds.

Next, Read is asked about what he describes as "traumatic" and "harrowing" investigations that were faced by postmasters.

Read says there were five people who were investigators or had "investigation manager" in their job titles and had been involved in questioning or prosecuting postmasters, that were still employed by the firm - although they are not involved in investigations anymore.

It was reported over the weekend that the Post Office has hired a new team of investigators, including some ex-police, to look at its own staff's previous work investigating the Horizon scandal.

Concerns about "bullying" and "intimidating" past behaviour by investigators have been raised during the ongoing public inquiry.

Ben Tidswell, the chair of the remediation committee, gives us his side of the conversation with Carl Creswell, who mentioned the call in his evidence earlier.

He says he told Creswell that he heard concerns over Staunton's behaviour from Post Office board members and senior executives, and had passed those concerns on.

It would be accurate to say, he adds, that board members indicated they would leave their roles if Staunton remained in the job and says he was concerned that Staunton was obstructing investigations.

Tidswell says, too, that the fact that concerns about Staunton were acted upon is a sign the "system works".

"If somebody, no matter how senior, is misbehaving then that will be dealt with and the Post Office is big enough to be able to deal with that," he says.

Chair Liam Byrne asks Post Office Remediation Matters Director Simon Recaldin if anyone has ever told him to bear down on the value of claims.

"Never," he replies.