Summary

  • Prof Iain Gillespie, the former principal and vice-chancellor of the University of Dundee, has told Hoyrood's Education Committee he was "incompetent" in relation to the financial collapse of the university which he oversaw.

  • Earlier he was accused of being a coward by committee convener Douglas Ross.

  • The Tory MSP says Gillespie "created this mess and walked away into the sunset".

  • Gillespie resigned in December and was paid six months salary (£150,000) when he left, the committee hears. He says he never considered handing the money back but he later says he will "reflect" on the matter.

  • Gillespie begins his evidence with an apology to staff and students and says "the buck stops with me"

Media caption,

Prof Iain Gillespie asked about his estimated £150,000 pay-off

  1. The headlinespublished at 12:06 British Summer Time 26 June

    A gruelling evidence session for former Dundee University principal Prof Iain Gillespie has now drawn to a close.

    Here are the headlines:

    • Gillespie - who quit last December after the extent of the financial collapse emerged - offered a "heartfelt" apology to university staff and students.
    • The university currently faces a £35m deficit and has said it must cut 300 jobs through a voluntary redundancy scheme
    • The former principal initially said he had never considered paying back his £150,000 severance pay-off but later said he would reflect on that decision
    • A former academic colleague who complained about Gillespie's conduct contacted the committee during the meeting to say they had been left "completely broken" a decade later
    • Gillespie was accused by one MSP of being a "good time Charlie" when things were going well but nowhere to be seen when things were going wrong
    • He denied being a coward who "just walked away into the sunset" when he quit his job by text message
    • Gillespie was challenged on whether he was corrupt or incompetent - and he chose incompetent.

    That's all from our live coverage. The editor was Paul McLaren and the writers were Craig Hutchison and James Delaney.

  2. Analysis

    The circus rolls onpublished at 12:04 British Summer Time 26 June

    Philip Sim
    BBC Scotland political correspondent

    Prof Gillespie did not stop to speak to reporters after leaving the committee room.

    He had endured a gruelling three hours of questioning on everything from his own competence, to his pay-off, to his travel arrangements.

    There were further questions as he strode off to the lift – including one from a Dundee student who asked “can we have our money back?"

    The former principal has said he will reflect on whether he will pay back his severance.

    But that £150k is a drop in the ocean compared to the £35m black hole still gaping in the university’s finances.

    Given an unprecedented bailout direct from government was agreed just this week, there are still clearly questions about the future of the institution.

    And this kind of circus frankly does nothing to help in terms of attracting students and staff in future.

  3. Gillespie concedes he was incompetentpublished at 11:39 British Summer Time 26 June

    Media caption,

    Prof Iain Gillespie asked whether he is corrupt or incompetent

    Douglas Ross says he is led to two final conclusions.

    "You were either incompetent or corrupt. Which was it?" says the committee chairman.

    "I'm certainly not corrupt, so I'll have to choose incompetent," replies Gillespie.

  4. Will Gillespie pay back his pay-off?published at 11:38 British Summer Time 26 June

    Ross asks, once again, whether Gillespie will pay back the £150,000-plus he was given as a pay-off for leaving.

    Gillespie says he will “take it away and reflect on it with my family”.

  5. 'Is Dundee still a great university?'published at 11:36 British Summer Time 26 June

    In one of his final points, Ross asks is Gillespie stands by his claim that Dundee remains a “great university”.

    Gillespie says it is “still a great university with many challenges”.

    Ross asks if those challenges were caused by him.

    Gillespie says his team and him had “produced many negatives towards it”.

    He says the uni has done “many good things, but should have been able to do greater things,” adding that he “takes responsibility for that”.

  6. Not knowing that £40m had been blown 'is extraordinary'published at 11:36 British Summer Time 26 June

    "This is extraordinary," interjects committee chairman Douglas Ross, after Gillespie says the first time he knew £40m of ring-fenced funding "had been blown" was the day of the meeting when he told the court of the £25-40m shortfall.

    "Between waking up and going to court, you found out you'd lost £40m. That's your evidence? That's not credible."

    "But it's true," replies Gillespie, "as unbelievable as that is, it's true."

  7. Marra: Dundee University beset by 'catalogue of incompetence'published at 11:26 British Summer Time 26 June

    Michael Marra describes the “catalogue of incompetence” from the university leadership in recent years.

    He says three principals have had to leave their positions as a result of the financial issues and questions if there is a lack of leadership and structure at the university.

    Gillespie says there is “almost no-one” on the executive group now from his time at the institution.

    He says it is difficult to attract quality candidates to organisations which are “financially challenged and asymmetric” like Dundee is.

  8. Sorry about the loss of picturespublished at 11:21 British Summer Time 26 June

    Apologies for the loss of live pictures at the top of this page. We are dealing with a technical issue.

  9. Analysis

    Report found few dared speak to powerpublished at 11:19 British Summer Time 26 June

    Douglas Fraser
    Scotland business & economy editor

    Circling back, as we like to say in business jargon...

    The inquiry into Dundee's financial burach, led by Prof Pamela Gillies (former principal of Glasgow Caledonian University) found a "considerable number" of people across a range of roles at Dundee university "commented on the way dissent or challenge was routinely 'shut down', particularly by the Principal (then Iain Gillespie) who, we understand, did not welcome difficult conversations".

    And particularly with women? Wendy Alexander is possibly the only person to come out of the Gillies Report with any credit: "Few dared to speak truth to power, although one member of the university's executive group, vice-principal (international) (which was Wendy Alexander's job) is reported to have challenged the Principal in a variety of different settings."

    It goes on: "Female members of staff in particular, reported being spoken over, sidelined or discussed in public as being obstructive if they attempted to be heard and there were reports that the University policy on dignity and fairness was not upheld in a number of instances."

  10. 'Do you just not care?' - Rosspublished at 11:14 British Summer Time 26 June

    Douglas RossImage source, scottish parliament
    Image caption,

    Douglas Ross is chairing the committee session

    How many times did the Gillies Report say "the principal could have been aware, should have been aware or was aware" of the financial crisis, committee chairman Douglas Ross asks Gillespie.

    Gillespie responds he has not counted it but "many times". The Tory MSP tells Gillespie it was 12 times.

    "Do you just not care?" Ross asks.

    "I care very, very deeply," says Gillespie, "It's extremely painful to all of us".

    He adds he's "very, very, very apologetic for the way we ran the affairs of the university".

  11. 'I paid the price by losing my job'published at 11:11 British Summer Time 26 June

    iain gillespieImage source, PA Media

    Chapman asks who should pay for the “self-inflicted failure” at the university.

    Gillespie says he has paid by losing his job.

    Chapman points out Gillespie left the role with six months' salary to be paid.

    Gillespie says “that’s contractual”.

    Chapman asks if it is fair that the 700 university staff who are still under the “threat of compulsory redundancy” should pay for the failures of senior management.

    Gillespie says he has “taken responsibility by leaving”.

  12. University of Dundee had 'ingrained racist elements'published at 11:07 British Summer Time 26 June

    Maggie Chapman, who will take on the role of rector of the University of Dundee, continues to grill Gillespie.

    The Green MSP asks Gilliespie if he had became aware of accusations of misogyny and homophobia, what would he have done.

    The former principal pauses for a moment and then replies he would have sought advice from the university deputy secretary.

    "I reflected deeply and often on the culture of the University of Dundee."

    It had a number of "ingrained racist elements" which led to participation in the Race Equality Charter, says Gillespie.

    The situation appears to have got worse under Gillespie, suggests Chapman.

  13. Gillespie missed initial staff meeting due to 'deep private commitment'published at 11:05 British Summer Time 26 June

    Green MSP Maggie Chapman asks why Gillespie was not on campus in November when the full scale of the financial challenges became apparent.

    She says Gillespie sent his deputy to the first staff town hall meeting to discuss the situation.

    Gillespie says he does not “want to get into it in public” but he had a “deep private commitment” that weekend.

    He says his colleagues were supportive of his decision.

  14. WATCH - Gillespie told person who complained about him has got in touchpublished at 11:03 British Summer Time 26 June

    Media caption,

    Prof Iain Gillespie asked about a complaint made against him while at NERC

    Earlier in the committee meeting, Gillespie was asked whether there were complaints made against him his time at the Natural Environment Research Council (Nerc).

    After first saying he did not recall, he later tells the committee there was one member of staff who made a complaint against his "overbearing behaviour".

    Gillespie says it was resolved when the individual moved to another job "across the research council".

    Committee member Willie Rennie returns to the subject later in the meeting to say he has received a message from the person who complained.

    Rennie says the individual did not move to another job but actually left the organisation "completely broken".

    They also lost their final salary pension, he says.

    Rennie tells Gillespie: "To deny it initially and for this person to have felt it so strongly and for it to have affected their life so deeply, for you not to recall. I'm afraid that tells us a lot about you."

  15. Ross accuses Gillespie of trying to make financial statements 'look brighter'published at 10:59 British Summer Time 26 June

    Douglas Ross returns to questioning Prof Gillies and raises the issue of the academic's hand-written amendments to the financial statements of 2023/24, despite him having no financial training.

    "You want to paint a brighter picture by changing this," says the Tory MSP.

    The auditor rejected the hand-written amendments which "didn't pass muster".

    The narrative at the beginning of the financial statements was something he took a view on, says Gillespie.

  16. How much government support has been given?published at 10:56 British Summer Time 26 June

    If you're just joining us, the former principal of the University of Dundee is being grilled by MSPs on the financial crisis he presided over.

    Prof Iain Gillespie is being asked to defend his actions after the Scottish government was forced to bail out the university.

    Just to recap:

    The Scottish Funding Council approved a £22m support package for Dundee University in March.

    The university's acting chair of court Tricia Bey had warned that the university would run out of money by the end of June without financial support.

    The SFC - which is an arms-length public body of the Scottish government - said its £22m package would be a mix of low-cost loans and capital grant, external.

    And this week, in an unprecedented move, the Scottish government instructed the SFC to provide the university with an extra £40m.

    Education Secretary Jenny Gilruth said the decision would place specific conditions on the funding which will be paid over two academic years.

    She said the money was "not rewarding failure" but responding to an "unprecedented and unique situation".

  17. Marra: You 'bet on the future of the university and the whole city'published at 10:50 British Summer Time 26 June

    Marra asks if it was right to say Gillespie “bet the future of the whole university and the city” on rapid growth from international students.

    Gillespie says the university “expected” continued growth and international student recruitment go up, but visa changes and other challenges meant that did not happen.

    Marra cites three reports warning about issues with international university recruitment, and asks whether he thought the university was “immune” to international financial challenges – such as the Nigerian currency losing 70% of its value.

    Gillespie says he “believed the data” he was getting from his colleagues.

  18. WATCH - Gillespie accused of being a cowardpublished at 10:48 British Summer Time 26 June

    Media caption,

    Prof Iain Gillespie asked how he resigned from Dundee University

    Earlier in the committee meeting, convener Douglas Ross asks Prof Gillespie about a Courier newspaper story that he resigned by text message.

    Prof Gillespie is unsure whether he resigned by text or email.

    Ross says: "I think I would remember ending my career at the university and how I did it.

    He adds: "I read that and the only thing I thought about you is that you were a coward. You couldn't go back to the university and face the staff who were losing their jobs, face the students whose studies were so badly disrupted, you just created this mess and walked away into the sunset."

    Prof Gillespie says: "I don't think I'm a coward."

  19. 'You were a good time Charlie' when things were going wellpublished at 10:46 British Summer Time 26 June

    Michael Marra, who is a list MSP for the North East, reminds the committee he worked at the University of Dundee for a time when Gillespie was principal.

    "When you were essentially asked to leave the university you weren't very happy about it," says the Labour MSP, who asks if he felt betrayed.

    Gillespie replies: "I was very sad."

    He says the chair of the court told him they had lost faith in him and he had to go.

    Marra says there was "complete inaction" from Gillies and he could not push through a voluntary severance package.

    That's not true at all, Gillespie replies.

    "You were a principal for the good times, good time Charlie, but when it turned you were completely inactive," says Marra.

    That's absolutely not the case, insists the academic.

  20. Gillespie challenged on 'saying little' during court meetingspublished at 10:41 British Summer Time 26 June

    Gillespie is asked about the protocol in university court meetings.

    He says there was a “sense of speak when you are spoken to” when in university court meetings with former chair, Amanda Millar.

    He says he found that a “contrasting style” to the previous chair of court.

    Scottish Greens MSP Ross Greer says that is “challenging” to accept given previous evidence of Gillespie character as he was presenting himself as “cowed” by Millar.

    Gillespie says he did not use the word “cowed,” but said Millar was clear that he was to “say little”.