Jenna Moon
Live reporter

It was a characteristically fiery edition of Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg.

There was plenty of talk about housing, with Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner repeating Labour’s pledge to build 1.5 million homes before the next election. She says she is "determined" to deliver on that promise.

Yesterday, Kuenssberg looked at whether the government's plans are bold enough – you can read more about the target in this InDepth piece.

Rayner also defended her behaviour at a meeting with Grenfell Tower victims and their families. She denies claims from some attendees that she was aggressive when announcing plans to dismantle the tower to ground level. You can read more from Kuenssberg on her response.

Elsewhere, Tory MP Alex Burghart reacted to Reform UK's rise in the polls, saying the party wants to "destroy" the Conservatives – but he didn’t rule out a deal.

We also heard from four parents suing TikTok in the US after their children died. They believe harmful content played a role and say big tech firms have "no compassion".

And if you missed it, you can catch up on our interview with Israeli President Isaac Herzog.

You can also find out more about the background of Kuenssberg's interview with Israeli president Isaac Herzog in this story.

Thanks for joining us.

It’s been an intense grilling for Angela Rayner and Alex Burghart today on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg, but where can you go for more politics?

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Joshua Nevett
Political reporter

Image source, PA Media

“There are no excuses to not build those homes that people desperately need,” Rayner told Laura Kuenssberg earlier.

She is convinced this Labour government is making all the right moves to get Britain building.

Planning reform is at the centre of Labour’s plans. It includes reintroducing housing targets for councils, and making it easier for developers to build on so-called “grey” parts of the green belt.

But Labour’s target means building an average of 300,000 new homes a year - a number not achieved since the 1970s.

And there’s only so much the government can do to get spades in the ground. Most new housing in the UK is built by a handful of large housebuilders - and the government cannot tell them when and how much to build.

It’s easy to see why - as Rayner admitted - she’d been asked if she wanted to review the housing target, weeks after taking office.

Her response: “I wasn’t going to give up on the target.”

Challenge accepted. Only time will tell whether Labour's reforms have the desired effect.

In an interview during the programme, Israeli President Isaac Herzog is asked by Laura how he would justify reports of "appalling conditions" for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

He says he "absolutely rejects" these reports.

Watch what he has to say below.

Angela Rayner says the government's target to build 1.5 million homes is "challenging" and she "knew it was going to be really difficult." But she's not giving up on it.

Press play below to hear what she has to say.

That’s a wrap on this week’s show.

Here’s what we heard:

• Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner was pressed on Labour’s housing plans and said she is “determined” to build 1.5 million homes, as promised in the party’s election manifesto. She said the government would ramp up supply
• She defended her behaviour at a meeting with bereaved families of Grenfell Tower victims, where she announced plans to dismantle the building to ground level. Some attendees said Rayner was “aggressive”
• In an interview, Israeli President Isaac Herzog said he was worried about the Israeli hostages still being held after three were released yesterday looking malnourished. But he dismissed allegations of abuses against Palestinian prisoners
• Tory MP Alex Burghart said Reform UK wanted to "destroy" the Conservative Party but won't rule out a deal with them. He also said his party will cut net migration but hasn't given a specific target
• Four parents suing TikTok over their children’s deaths said tech giants have “no compassion” and want accountability for harmful content online

That's it for Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg, but she will be on Newscast with Paddy O'Connell later today - which you can listen to on the Newscast website and wherever you get your podcasts.

There will also be a special episode of Newscast with the full conversation with the four British families who are suing TikTok for the alleged wrongful deaths of their children.

Journalist Vicky Spratt from the i Paper points out that tech giants were at the US presidential inauguration, which shows how much power they have.

"There isn't enough transparency," she says, adding that we don't know enough about social media algorithms.

Greg Jackson, chief executive of energy firm Octopus, says that as a parent, it was hard not to well up while watching the interviews.

He says dangerous content is what keeps people engaged on social media, and companies take advantage of that.

Social media firms have caused great harm, and we need to hold them accountable, he says.

That's the end of Kuenssberg's programme for today – we'll bring you a summary of the key points shortly.

Here's some reaction from the panel.

Gillian Keegan, former Tory MP and education secretary, is asked if she wishes her government had done more.

She says families are searching for answers and the Online Safety Act has now become law. The UK must hold companies accountable, Keegan says.

The BBC asked TikTok for their response to the news that it is being sued by four parents who say their children died after taking part in viral trends on the platform.

The company sent us this statement:

"The blackout challenge is blocked on TikTok and has been since 2020. TikTok does not allow videos showing or promoting dangerous activity. The law requires companies like ours to delete people's personal data."

Laura is now asking Ellen Roome what it means for these four parents to have found each other, particularly during this difficult time.

Roome, who has been campaigning for legislation that would allow parents to access the social media accounts of their children if they die, says that she is grateful for the support she has received from the other bereaved parents.

"You do have some days particularly bad - when it's very difficult to function," she says, but being able to pick up the phone and call someone who understands what you are going through does help.

Roome, from Cheltenham, believes her 14-year-old son Jools died after an online challenge went wrong and his social media accounts could provide the evidence needed.

Laura is now highlighting the new government online safety act, which comes into force in the spring.

For context, the Online Safety Act is designed to control online speech and media deemed "harmful". It said the act took a "zero-tolerance approach" to protecting children and ensured social media platforms were held responsible for the content they hosted.

Laura now asks Liam Walsh if he has confidence in the UK's attempt to protect children online.

Walsh says he doesn’t.

"I'm about to find out if I'm right or wrong. Because I don't think it's baring its teeth enough. I think I would be forgiven for having no faith at this point - two-and-a-half years down the road and having no answers."

Walsh’s 13-year-old daughter, Maia, was found dead at her Hertfordshire home on 7 October 2022, a few weeks before her birthday. Her dad said at the time she was watching self-harm TikTok videos before her death and had previously mentioned a social media game.

Kenevan continues to explain to Laura how she’s reported a certain video that she takes issue with on the platform “so many times”, and each time she’s received a message on the app that there’s nothing wrong.

“They’re in breach of their own rules,” she says. “They’re saying they don’t allow harmful content [or] challenges,” Kenevan adds, but alleges that “they do”.

“And they put out the same corporate statement every single time this is brought up,” she says, before Hollie Dance cuts in.

Dance, whose son Archie Battersbee died aged 12 after a "prank or experiment" went wrong at their home in Southend-on-Sea in April 2022, says she agrees with Kenevan.

“No compassion at all,” Dance says.

“It’s just a statement that goes out to the public.”

Laura asks Lisa Kenevan, whose 13-year-old son Isaac died after it was believed he took part in a choke challenge on social media, what she and the other parents hope to achieve from the lawsuit.

"Accountability," says Kenevan. TikTok, she says, needs to look at "parents around the world", as she stresses that she believes what happened to her son in England is happening "everywhere".

"We want TikTok to be forthcoming, we want it to help us," she adds. "Why hold back from giving us the data? How can they sleep at night?"

The lawsuit, filed in the US on Thursday, claims that Isaac Kenevan, 13, Archie Battersbee, 12, Julian "Jools" Sweeney, 14, and Maia Walsh, 13, died while attempting the so-called "blackout challenge".

The complaint was filed in the Superior Court of the State of Delaware by the US-based Social Media Victims Law Center on behalf of Archie's mother Hollie Dance, Isaac's mum Lisa Kenevan, Jools' mother Ellen Roome and Maia's dad Liam Walsh.

We’re about to hear from four British families who are suing TikTok for the alleged wrongful deaths of their children.

Hollie Dance, Lisa Kenevan, Liam Walsh and Ellen Roome are accusing the tech giant of having "no compassion" and have sat down with Laura Kuenssberg to explain why they’re planning to take the company to court, including that they want to try to find out the truth about what happened to their children.

They believe their children died after taking part in a viral trend that circulated on the video-sharing platform in 2022.

TikTok says it prohibits dangerous content and challenges. It has blocked searches for videos and hashtags related to the particular challenge the children's parents say is linked to their deaths.

Burghart goes on to say that they take the challenge from Reform UK "very seriously".

Asked if they would consider a pact with the party, he says their ambition is to "destroy" the Conservative Party, but he refuses to rule out making a deal.

The conversation then moves on to the parents who are taking TikTok to court over the deaths of their children.

Burghart is asked if he wishes the Conservative Party had taken a tougher line when they were in government on regulating the online space.

Burghart says he "can't help but feel desperate for parents whose children have been through that".

He says the country has to have a serious conversation about the relationship children have with devices and social media.

He adds there needs to be a serious conversation about regulation.

Kuenssberg asked Burghart about Tory leader Kemi Badenoch’s goal to lower migration.

He says that they would place a hard cap on the number of migrants entering the country but declines to say exactly what that number would be.

Burghart also says that they would “elongate” the process to become a citizen and extend the time before an immigrant can apply for indefinite leave to remain.

The cap and migration plans will be announced by the Tories before the next election, Burghart notes.

Asked by Kuenssberg about Reform’s surge in recent polls, Burghart says that anyone taking polling seriously at “this point in the election cycle … needs to get a life.”

Conservative MP Alex Burghart is now facing Laura’s questions.

The 47-year-old former teacher is the MP for Brentwood and Ongar in Essex, and a member of the Tory shadow cabinet - party leader Kemi Badenoch’s top team.

He has two roles in that team - shadow chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and shadow secretary of state for Northern Ireland.

The former is largely a ceremonial title - in practice it means he shadows Labour’s Pat McFadden, who oversees the Cabinet Office.

Burghart has also deputised for Badenoch at PMQs, taking on Rayner when the party leaders were away.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog is now on the programme, talking about the latest Israeli hostage and Palestinian prisoner release, which took place yesterday.

Herzog starts by speaking about the condition of the three men who were released by Hamas yesterday, saying they were "shocked and horrified" when they saw them emerge. He says Israel is "extremely worried" about the remaining hostages.

Asked about reports of "appalling conditions" for Palestinian prisoners, including "violence, abuse and humiliation inside Israeli prisons", Herzog "absolutely" rejects claims of poor treatment.

"All prisoners get whatever is necessary," he says. "Some Palestinians didn't want to go back to Gaza, they preferred staying in Israeli prisons." Herzog also rejects claims of torture in Israeli prisons.