Lucy Letby's former boss, Alison Kelly, tells a public Inquiry she had "good intentions" despite failing to escalate concerns about the nurse
Kelly was director of nursing and lead for safeguarding at the Countess of Chester Hospital when Letby killed seven babies and tried to kill seven others
Kelly is pushed on why more was not done to prevent Letby from working after concerns had been raised about her. She says the idea of a nurse harming babies was "difficult to comprehend"
She is also quizzed about why she spoke to Letby during a grievance process, and why she told the nurse she would be going back to the unit before the investigation was complete
Kelly accepts that as part of the same process, she made "misleading and potentially false" statements in her interview with the doctor who was investigating
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You can read an overview of Kelly's evidence to the inquiry here, or you can scroll down through this page to see how it unfolded.
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The inquiry heard from Alison Kelly, who was director of nursing and lead for safeguarding at the Countess of Chester Hospital when Lucy Letby killed seven babies and tried to kill seven others. She was also Letby's boss. Here's what we heard:
Erica Witherington
Reporting from the inquiry
Peter Skelton KC, representing the parents of several of the babies, has been asking why Kelly - who was in charge of safeguarding - did not trigger a safeguarding process when the concerns about deliberate harm towards babies were brought to her attention.
He says: "To be clear, the likely event that would have occurred, had you triggered that process would have been the police would have been alerted and Letby - in all likelihood - would have been suspended pending an investigation to check safety at the unit."
Alison Kelly concedes this, but insists that at the time, it did not feel obvious to her that it was safeguarding issue.
“Everybody looked at this though a mortality lens, not a safeguarding one," she explains.
The last person to put questions to Kelly is her own representative, Kate Blackwell KC.
Blackwell refers to a meeting that Kelly and other senior managers had with Dr Jayaram, in March 2017.The inquiry has previously heard that he and Dr Brearey felt like "battered wives" and felt the executives were the "abusers".
Blackwell asks Kelly how she felt about the fact the two lead consultants on the neonatal unit felt so bruised.
"Shocked," says Kelly.
Image source, PA MediaThe inquiry has almost finished for the day after hearing from Letby's former manager.
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Nick Garnett
Reporting from the inquiry
Baker then talks about a meeting one of the mothers of the murdered babies said she had with Kelly in July 2016.
“You were aware that concerns had been raised about the conduct of Lucy Letby and were aware of a number of reports being launched by the hospital. Do you remember meeting the mother of Child C?” He asks.
“I have reflected on this,” says Kelly. “I’m not saying the meeting didn’t take place but I don’t recall meeting the parents of any babies at that time.”
The mother had read an article in a local newspaper about an investigation that had been launched into the number of deaths on the neonatal unit.
At the meeting, the mother says she was told the investigation was “more of a formality". Mr Baker says Mother C was pregnant at the time, her previous child had died, murdered by Letby.
He tells the inquiry the mother remembers the meeting fully and says what she was told at the time was not the whole truth and that details of where the investigations were up to were incomplete.
“You lied to her,” says Baker.
“I don’t recall that meeting, honestly,” she replies.
“I can’t imagine any of the families wanted to be lied to,” says Baker.
Nick Garnett
Reporting from the inquiry
Continuing with the questions about emails, Baker shows Alison Kelly an email she sent to the medical director of the hospital, Ian Harvey.
He says that between March and May of 2016 there were a number of “red flag” emails that needed action and, he says, no action was being taken.
The lawyer asks the former director of nursing if the delays in doing anything allowed Lucy Letby to murder the children of the families he represents.
Kelly says she has reflected on this. She says she doesn’t know why there were delays but there was a lack of urgency to hold meetings and things “ticked along” longer than they should have done.
Baker wonders what should have been done, asking her: “Were you too busy to do your job?”
“I was a very busy person and my portfolio was very large and getting through emails was difficult,” she responds.
Baker then asks why she didn't raise this with the hospital.
“Everyone else in my position would be in exactly the same position in terms of workload... I rely on the rest of my team to flag concerns to me," Kelly answers.
Nick Garnett
Reporting from the inquiry
Alison Kelly is being led through a series of emails between herself and other senior managers at the hospital.
She tells the inquiry that she was never given “a full picture” and there was nothing that significantly raised concerns at that time, regarding Lucy Letby being on shift when a number of babies collapsed or died.
She told the inquiry earlier in the day that as director of nursing she was getting sometimes hundreds of emails a day.
Richard Baker KC asks her if she’s being honest that she didn’t fully read one email that referenced high mortality and the commonality of a particular nurse, and didn’t open an attachment that had more details.
Alison Kelly says she can’t recall, but that at the time it didn’t raise significant concerns and that sometimes email isn’t a great form of communication for putting serious matters across.
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
Image source, Thirlwall InquiryAlison Kelly is now being questioned by Richard Baker KC who is asking questions on behalf of some of the babies’ families.
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
Alison Kelly is asked why she didn’t mention Dr Jayaram’s comments in her later communications with a range of external bodies including the Nursing and Midwifery Council and the police.
De la Poer asks: “Is the position that you just forgot about it?”
Kelly answers: “I can’t recall."
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
The inquiry hears about a meeting of hospital directors on 16 March 2017 – after Letby was taken off duty but before the police were involved.
Dr Ravi Jayaram had spoken to the head of HR beforehand and had raised three specific occasions involving Letby where she was beside a cot and breathing valves had been moved.
Kelly says this is the first time that he’d brought them such concerns and the executives were very shocked.
A recorded note of this meeting refers to the consultants as follows: “They feel like battered wives. Execs is abuser."
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
The questioning of Kelly's meeting with Letby continuing, with counsel to the inquiry de la Poer asking her: "Is that because you had closed your mind to what those reports might reveal and you had a single objective which was to get her back on the unit?"
Kelly replies: "It wasn’t a single objective. It was premature of me, but we were keeping an open mind and not trying to have doctors vs nurses which eventually ended up feeling like that."
De la Poer asks if "telling Lucy Letby that she was going back on the unit before the investigation was completely the opposite of having an open mind?"
"I think I disagree with that," replies Kelly.
"I think there was a lot going on and the conflict was that I was the professional lead for nursing and wasn’t helpful in the conversation we were having there. But yeah I’ve reflected on that, and it could have been done differently in light of the other investigations that were going on."
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
In November 2015, whilst Letby’s grievance complaint was still being investigated, director of nursing Alison Kelly met with her in person.
Asking about this, de la Poer KC says: "Here is you, a witness in the grievance, whilst the grievance is going on, having a meeting with her telling her that she is going to go back on the unit - do you see that?"
Kelly accepts that this meeting was a "conflict".
"I have reflected a lot on the involvement of myself and the conversations I had with Lucy Letby and if I knew then what I know now, that would not be my normal practice," she adds.
De la Poer presses her further, saying: "You were telling Letby before the investigations had been concluded that she was going back on the unit."
Kelly admits this, and calls her actions "premature".
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
Sticking with the information Kelly provided to a grievance complaint that had been raised by Letby and was being investigated, the counsel to the inquiry puts it to Kelly that she communicated to the investigator in an interview that she expected Letby to return to the unit.
"We needed to make an assessment of whether she was going back on the unit," Kelly says.
The counsel to the inquiry asks: "Did you think it was a bit premature when you hadn’t had the outcome of the review?"
Kelly responds: "It probably was a little premature. We needed to get a full picture."
"It was complex," she says, adding: "There was an individual in the middle of this, as well as a group of consultants who were upset by this process."
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
Alison Kelly accepts making “misleading and potentially false” statements in her interview with the doctor who was investigating Letby’s grievance complaint.
She told Dr Chris Green, the person investigating Letby’s grievance, that there were “no immediate actions” pending against the nurse, whereas the trust had been given external advice that they should commence disciplinary proceedings against her.
She says: “I recognise that was misleading."
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
Kelly says she accepts that “on reflection it would have been better” if the grievance process – raised by Letby – had been overseen by somebody independent, rather than the director of pharmacy at the hospital, a doctor who knew people involved.
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
Alison Kelly is told that she will now be asked about the grievance procedure which Letby raised in September 2016, after being taken off nursing duty, against her wishes, after concerns were raised about her.
This grievance was upheld in Letby’s favour.
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
The inquiry now turns to a review by the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health (RCPCH), which was published in February 2017.
Two reports were produced – one had Letby's name in it but it was redacted and kept private by executives at the hospital.
The counsel to the inquiry puts it to Kelly: "It put patient safety at risk didn’t it, not sharing that report as soon as it was available didn’t it?"
Kelly responds: "You could say that, yes."
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
The inquiry hears that the Countess of Chester Hospital Trust never initiated any disciplinary investigation into Lucy Letby.
Image source, EPA-EFE/REX/ShutterstockJudith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
Image source, Thirlwall InquiryJumping back in the timeline to September 2016, eight months before the police were involved, a team from the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health was invited by executives to come into the hospital and review the neonatal unit.
The head of that team has previously told the inquiry that Kelly was particularly supportive of Letby and quite dismissive of the allegation against her.
Counsel to the inquiry Nicholas de la Poer asks Kelly to respond to this claim
“I’ve never been dismissive. We took this very, very seriously. I certainly wouldn’t say I was dismissive at all," Kelly says.
Judith Moritz
Special correspondent, reporting from the inquiry
The Nursing and Midwifery Council found out about Lucy Letby’s arrest on 3 July 2018. Alison Kelly then referred the nurse to the NMC the following day.