Now the questioning moves on to self-isolation payments.

In September 2020, the government introduced a scheme where if a person tested positive for coronavirus or was asked to self-isolate, they could apply for a £500 support payment in England and Wales if they were on a low-income and could not work from home., external

Gove is asked why he thought these payments should be done on a UK-wide basis rather than funnelling money through local authorities.

Gove says he thought it was critical to have appropriate payments for self-isolation to stop the spread of the virus and said he believed it was a UK government responsibility.

The inquiry is now shown an email from an unnamed individual in the Northern Ireland Office, expressing concern that the Cabinet Office was "seeking to take ownership" of devolved administration handling in the early months of the pandemic.

Peter Wilcock, taking questions for Northern Ireland Covid Bereaved Families for Justice, asks Gove if he was aware of these concerns.

Gove says he wasn't aware of any concern, but adds that he personally was keen to involve the devolved administrations as closely as possible.

Pete Wilcock KC is now asking questions on behalf of the Northern Ireland Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice.

Wilcock is asking Gove about his role in working with the devolved nations.

Gove says with the devolved nations there are different personalities and parties represented but says "generally the meetings were cordial".

"Generally we made progress, and generally there was an understanding of proceeding on a UK-wide basis," he adds.

Gove says that he had over 100 meetings with devolved leaders, which he says shows how seriously he took that role.

The counsel to the inquiry, Hugo Keith KC, asks Gove about a private email he sent to then prime minister Boris Johnson on 2 January 2021, in which he expresses his views about imposing a third lockdown.

Gove says he wanted the PM to see his own "unvarnished opinions" without interference, "laid out in black and white".

He adds that he suspects he wasn't "vigorous enough" in putting over his view at some points, while at other times adopting a "belt and braces approach".

"I wanted to make sure he was clear about how I felt," Gove says.

Gove is asked about a diary note written by Sir Patrick Vallance, who was the UK government’s chief scientific adviser until earlier this year.

Valance wrote that former PM Boris Johnson was worried about Christmas 2020 and the virus, and quotes Gove saying that the last year had shown "we have been too lenient, too late" and "we cannot make the same mistakes yet again".

Gove is asked what those mistakes were.

He says "allowing too much social mixing". Gove says his view is too often we didn't "go early enough and we didn't go hard enough".

Gove is asked about the discussions that took place ahead of the second lockdown in November 2020.

A paper on the data which formed the foundation for decisions to lockdown for second time stated that the "situation is deteriorating".

Gove agrees that a winter lockdown would be of greater significance given the extra strain on the NHS towards the end of 2020.

He adds that ordering a second lockdown was a “certainly difficult” decision to take.

He says the then prime minister Boris Johnson had hoped that the worst was behind us, but he and others had concerns that conditions for a “difficult second wave were growing” and that “timely and serious action needed to be taken".

Gove was sceptical about 'flawed' tiering systempublished at 14:50 Greenwich Mean Time 28 November 2023

14:50 GMT 28 November 2023

Jim Reed
Health reporter

The inquiry is talking now about the autumn of 2020, when Covid cases were rising sharply across much of England.

On 14 October, the government put in place a system of regional controls with areas of England placed into different tiers - from one to three - with different level of restrictions.

It's a system which has already been heavily criticised by scientists, civil servants and local mayors in this second phase of the inquiry.

Giving evidence today Michael Gove also described the idea as "inherently flawed".

"I was sceptical and grew more sceptical about its efficacy and... I advocated for an approach which was more England wide," he said.

He suggested that the virus would, naturally, spread from high prevalence to low prevalence areas and "what starts in Essex doesn't stay in Essex".

Asked if he was advocating a stronger, England-wide approach at the time, he said "I was, you might call it, on the more hawkish, or at the more cautious depending on your point of view, end of the spectrum in internal debates."

Gove is now being asked about local lockdowns.

He is asked about evidence given to the inquiry on Monday by Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham, who said that Manchester was treated "appallingly" with regards to England's tier restrictions.

Gove responds that the problems were "broader than just Manchester".

He adds that the tiering system was "inherently flawed".

Gove is talking about the different pandemic public health messaging between the devolved administrations.

He recalls that the Scottish government had its own acronym – FACTS – and that Scotland wanted it to take precedence over the UK government’s ‘Hands, Face, Space’ messaging.

Gove says it was “right to use 'Hands, Face, Space' and that the evidence for the Scottish government’s different approach was not strong.” However he says Scotland's former first minister Nicola Sturgeon felt she could go ahead with her own messaging because she said her government was trusted in its handling of the pandemic in Scotland.

“I think both views had legitimacy,” Gove says.

Gove also confirmed that the Scottish government had not been told about the change in the UK’s messaging from ‘Stay at Home’ to ‘Stay Alert’. But he adds that he doesn't believe it caused any detriment to the handling of the pandemic.

The Levelling Up minister says he “admires” the way Nicola Sturgeon handled the pandemic, but suggests the Scottish government’s response to the UK government’s messaging was driven by nationalist "grievance".

Image source, EPA

More now of Michael Gove's dealings with the devolved administrations during the pandemic.

"The problem was simple, devolved administrations wanted more money," Gove tells the inquiry.

The case was they had a “generous response” from the Treasury, he adds, and says that the devolved structure does work.

Inquiry lawyer Hugo Keith KC says the leaders of the devolved administrations were not invited on a rolling basis to the government's "Covid-O" committee meetings until 1 October.

As a result, they were kept out of conversations between May and October 2020, Keith adds.

Gove rejects this, saying there were regular calls, and there was a "diminution not a halt" in the engagement with leaders of the devolved administrations.

Gove is now being asked about Covid planning involving the devolved nations - Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

He says there were occasions when cabinet colleagues bristled at devolved nations being involved in discussions they were not briefed on.

Gove says balancing was important, but in his view, the government benefited from bringing in the devolved administrations as early as possible.

He disagreed that devolved nations were just told decisions made by the UK government rather than being involved in decision making.

Read more here: What is devolution and how does it work across the UK?

Inquiry counsel Hugo Keith KC points to former deputy cabinet secretary Helen McNamara's testimony where she said that there was a "disproportionate" amount of attention from Covid-related bodies given to "more male pursuits" such as football, hunting, shooting and fishing.

The lawyer shows WhatsApp conversations from September 2020 on screen, which highlighted that “lobbying” led to hunting and shooting being given exemptions from the 'rule of six', which Gove said he was in favour of doing so.

Gove replies that he was attempting to make sure that all “outdoor pursuits” were dealt with equally and fairly. In one message, Gove had said shooting was “environmentally and economically” defensible, but fox hunting was “less so”.

The ‘rule of six’ was introduced during the pandemic and meant people were legally prohibited from meeting more than six people socially both indoors or outdoors – outside of specific exceptions.

Government regulations at the time allowed indoor activity in groups of no more than six, whereas outdoor sports could be played in groups of more than six when organised by a governing body.

Gove says sorry, but refuses to criticise cabinet colleaguespublished at 14:07 Greenwich Mean Time 28 November 2023

14:07 GMT 28 November 2023

Hugh Pym
Health editor

Michael Gove is the first senior cabinet minister at the centre of the government’s response to coronavirus to give evidence in this module of the inquiry.

He was part of a so-called quad of key decision makers in 2020 along with Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak and Matt Hancock.

So his admission to mistakes and his own personal responsibility at the time is significant as well as his apology to bereaved families.

He was clear that lockdowns came too late both in March and November 2020.

He said the UK was not well enough prepared for the pandemic, that testing should have been better planned and that there were errors with procurement of personal protective equipment (PPE).

And he acknowledged there was not enough focus on the impact on children.

Gove has refused invitations to criticise his cabinet colleagues including Matt Hancock, which makes his evidence all the more intriguing.

Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove is back after lunch to continue his evidence to the Covid inquiry.

He was Cabinet Office minister during the pandemic and in charge of the department responsible for the smooth running of government.

Image source, Covid inquiry

While the inquiry team tuck into their sandwiches, let's recap the key points from Michael Gove's evidence.

In the pandemic, Gove was in charge of the Cabinet Office, which was responsible for the smooth and effective running of government. Here's what we've heard so far:

An apology Gove began by apologising to the victims and families "who endured so much loss" because of "mistakes" made by the government in the pandemic. Watch his apology in this 74-second clip here.

Lockdown Gove, like other witnesses, says "we were too slow to lock down" in March 2020, and should have taken stricter measures sooner ahead of the second lockdown at the end of 2020.

Missed opportunities WhatsApp messages Gove sent to the PM's adviser Dominic Cummings in early March 2020 show him warning "golden opportunities" were being missed. Gove wrote: "The whole situation is even worse than you think and action needs to be taken or we'll regret it for a long time".

Praise for Hancock Gove defended former Health Secretary Matt Hancock, who has come in for sharp criticism by some other witnesses. He says he has a "high opinion" of his ex-colleague, and "too much was asked" of his department at the beginning of the pandemic.

Defending Johnson Gove said introducing restrictions in March 2020 went against Boris Johnson's "instincts" and "political outlook". Elsewhere, he defended his former boss, saying: "I don’t think one can single out the prime minister at the time for criticism. We all deserve our share - retrospectively - of criticism."

Alternatives to lockdown Gove said the idea of "shielding the elderly and allow young people free reign […] would not have been effective in mitigating the virus", and said while many advocated an approach similar to Sweden's, the country relied on "wide societal acceptance" of restrictions.

We're going to be hearing more from Gove after lunch, and then we'll hear from Dame Jenny Harries, who was deputy chief medical officer in the pandemic and another familiar face at the Downing Street Covid briefings.

Gove continues speaking about the NHS, saying its constraints were not around “just equipment, but trained individuals – doctors, nurses, others”.

The capacity constraints were driven by “the number of specialists, and by the equipment, as well as by physical capacity”, he says.

Gove calls the Nightingale hospitals an “amazing feat”, but adds that people got the wrong impression that we could “magic up” significant capacity in the NHS at rapid speed.

He indicated that the “final step of lockdown” was required to bring the R rate down to prevent the NHS from being completely overwhelmed.

The R rate - or reproduction number - is a way of rating coronavirus or any disease's ability to spread. R is the number of people that one infected person will pass on a virus to, on average. Read more about this measure here.

The inquiry is taking a lunch break now but don't worry we'll still be here.

Talking about measures put in place before the UK was moved into lockdown, Gove says his view was that sterner measures were needed earlier and that accumulating evidence and the force of argument "made it clear that more action was required".

He questions whether the government had adopted measures knowing they were inadequate, before continuing: "I profoundly feared they would not be enough but in any debate within government you make your case and accept you will not always prevail."

The inquiry lawyer brings up a document from 21 March 2020 and points to multiple references on the impact on the NHS and the health service being "overwhelmed" or "collapsed".

To what extent did Cobra look at the evidence of the impact on the NHS, asks Hugo Keith KC.

Gove says: "One didn't need to know the precise nature of capacity within the NHS to be influenced by the broad argument that continued exponential growth would overwhelm it - there would have been a level of growth that almost no health service could have dealt with."

Inquiry chair Baroness Hallett interrupts Gove to ask if he had access to information from scientists who advised against a lockdown.

Michael Gove says he did, but their propositions were “just undeliverable”.

"The idea of shielding the elderly and allow young people free reign […] would not have been effective in mitigating the virus," he says.

Many people advocated that the UK should have chosen to go down Sweden’s route, Gove says. But he says they misunderstood what Sweden did.

"Sweden was able to reduce social mixing by a greater degree of reliance on wide societal acceptance of those restrictions," Gove says.

Sweden largely relied on voluntary social distancing guidelines since the start of the pandemic, including working from home where possible and avoiding public transport.

"Actually, the approach taken by both countries (the UK and Sweden) was more similar than many would like to admit," Gove says.

You can read more about Sweden's strategy in this piece from July 2020.

Jim Reed
Health reporter

Michael Gove is being asked about a key moment in March 2020

Through that month, measures were brought in to try to slow the spread of the disease.

On 16 March, for example, the public was asked to stay at home for 14 days if they - or anyone in their household - had Covid symptoms.

On the same day, the general public was advised to stop non-essential contact and all unnecessary travel. At the time though these were voluntary measures.

Gove agreed with previous witnesses that, from the data the government had at the time, they were not enough to bring the reproduction number - or R - under 1.0, and therefore bring overall infections down over time.

A 75% reduction in social contacts was necessary to shrink the outbreak, the government had been advised. So the first full lockdown was announced on 23 March.

Gove was asked why the government could not wait longer to see if the voluntary measures would work.

"Because those of us who were taking decisions understood where we were in terms of the growth of the virus," he said.

He said the reality of exponential growth meant that if the government had delayed another week "the numbers [would have been] so significant and so huge".

Sticking to the same week, Gove is asked why, when all the public health advice was pointing in the direction of a lockdown, Boris Johnson was "pushing back saying he had other material pointing the other way".

Gove says that Johnson, as the "ultimate decision maker", was entitled to test propositions and question whether the restriction of liberty was worth inflicting on people to prevent the spread of the virus.

He says Johnson preferred "gladiatorial decision-making" and wanted to see two or three scenarios rehearsed in front of him and in his own mind.

Gove adds it was "only fair" the PM had the "chance to reflect on the momentous nature of the decision".

Lawyer Hugo Keith KC points to an argument that Johnson "was incapable of making a decision or sticking to one he'd already made" and asks if this is a fair suggestion.

"No," says Gove. "On this occasion it was a reluctance to embrace a decision rather than an inability to stick to one."

He adds: "I don’t think one can single out the prime minister at the time for criticism. We all deserve our share - retrospectively - of criticism."