Thank you for joining our coverage of Matt Hancock's questioning. The inquiry is done for the day, but will be back questioning former PM Boris Johnson next week.
An ally of Matt Hancock said: "Matt commissioned a
shielding plan the first week of March. The fact Cummings didn't know about it
speaks volumes."
Analysis
A 'toxic culture' and a lockdown that 'should have happened earlier'
Hugh Pym
Health editor
His appearance was much anticipated and Matt
Hancock’s evidence in a marathon session lasting a day and a half has thrown up
many talking points, some unexpected.
His response to allegations by some other
witnesses, including Dominic Cummings, that he had at times been hugely
overconfident and less than truthful was robust.
He pointed the finger at a “malign” actor in
Downing Street and condemned what he called a “toxic” culture. So far so
predictable. The inquiry and the court of public opinion will weigh up those
claims and rebuttals.
The big surprise was his contention that
lockdown should have happened three weeks earlier in March 2020 and this could
have saved thousands of lives. He was also adamant that firmer action could
have been taken earlier in the autumn and this could have reduced the need to
take such draconian action in early January 2021 which, controversially,
included school closures.
This sets the scene for the evidence to be
given by Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak over the next two weeks. Their responses
on the lockdown timing questions will be watched closely.
On the care home issue Hancock was candid, he
admitted that the protective ring he had talked of was less robust than first
suggested. But he said the choices were very difficult, leaving the elderly in
hospital rather than discharging them to care homes might have exposed them to
a greater risk of getting the virus.
For bereaved families this is a critical issue. They will have
to wait for a later stage of the inquiry for it to be examined more closely.
Let's quickly recap the key moments from what the former health secretary
said:
On Thursday, Hancock defended his
handling of the Covid pandemic
But, he said many lives could have been saved if the first national
lockdown had been introduced three weeks
earlier
He denied being a liar or
being overconfident - contrary
to previous evidence given by other witnesses in the inquiry including Dominic
Cummings
Hancock insisted he had been forceful because he wanted to "wake up Whitehall"
Had the UK locked down earlier in the autumn of 2020, then
Hancock believed schools may not have
needed to close
Hancock said some regional leaders during the pandemic "put politics ahead of public health"
He claimed former Scottish First
Minister Nicola Sturgeon would communicate with the public "in a
way that was unhelpful and confusing"
Hancock accepted "transgressions" in
his personal life may have impacted the public's confidence in rules put in
place to stop the spread of Covid. He resigned as
health secretary in June 2021 after footage emerged of him kissing aide
Gina Coladangelo
Inquiry finishes for the day
The inquiry has finished questioning former Health Secretary Matt Hancock, and has come to a close for the day.
Next week we'll hear from the man at the very centre of government during the pandemic - former PM Boris Johnson.
Why wasn't more done to communicate long Covid risks, Hancock asked
Speaking on behalf of the long Covid groups, Anthony Metzer KC asks Hancock why more wasn't done to communicate the risk of long Covid to the public.
In July 2020, Hancock accepts he took written evidence on this, but admits it took six weeks to launch the plan.
"I repeatedly discussed long Covid", Hancock says, adding he felt like it was an area he "needed to push".
He says he believes concerns about long Covid were an important reason as to why the disease needed to be tackled.
Did risk of increase in domestic abuse factor into thinking on lockdown?
Liz Davies KC, representing Solace Womens Aid and Southall Black Sisters, raises the issue of domestic violence.
In normal times, she observes, women experiencing violence at home often go to their sister's, mother's or best friend's to get some respite time.
Why, she asks, was there nothing in the regulations in the spring of 2020 to allow women at risk to use this form of sanctuary?
Hancock says he does not recall this being raised. If it had been, he add, he is "highly confident" it would have been put in place as the impact on spreading the virus would have been relatively low.
Davies then asks if the increase in domestic abuse evident by the summer was in Hancock's mind when he was facing up to a second wave of Covid.
Hancock replies that this was one of the known costs of lockdown - but had to be weighed against the impact of the virus and not taking further lockdown action.
If I had a magic wand I'd double sick pay - Hancock
Now it is the turn of Samuel Jacobs who represents the Trade Union Congress (TUC) who starts by talking about sick pay during the pandemic.
Hancock tells the inquiry he believes sick pay is "far, far too low" in the UK.
"It encourages people to go to work when they should be getting better," Hancock says adding if he had a "magic wand" he would double it.
Hancock said he pushed for isolation payments from the start of the pandemic noting they came into place in September.
He also praises the TUC and former general secretary Frances O'Grady for their advocacy on the issues.
Ventilation became more important as we understood science - Hancock
Hancock is now being asked about what he knew about the airborne transmission of the virus.
He says figuring out how Covid was transmitted was important, but the science behind it was "quite complex".
Early on, Hancock says, it was largely assumed that droplets caused transmission, but in summer 2020 it became clear that airborne transmission was more important - leading to a change in advice.
Droplets are large, and released by things such as coughing and sneezing, whereas airborne particles are tiny and can stay in the air for a long time.
Because of this shift in position, he says ventilation was now seen as more important at preventing the spread of the virus - something that was not understood at the start of the pandemic.
To stop healthcare workers dying, we had to stop Covid - Hancock
Next, Matt Hancock is asked about the impact on doctors and health professionals by Brian Stanton from the British Medical Association.
He is asked to what extent he was able to advocate on behalf of health workers after first wave, who Stanton says desperately needed time to recover from that first wave.
Hancock says he felt that argument "very deeply".
"To stop healthcare workers dying, you had to stop Covid," Hancock says, as he adds healthcare workers were the first to get the vaccine when it became available.
Hancock questioned on ethnic minority deaths in the NHS
Now Leslie Thomas KC, representing the Federation of Ethnic Minority Healthcare Organisations, asks Hancock what steps he took to work with ethnic minority leaders, given the number of deaths among ethnic minorities.
Hancock says he "engaged with NHS leadership" on the deaths of those from all backgrounds, but says he was particularly focused on the deaths of minorities, and racism within the NHS.
This last point, he says, he was concerned about "well before the pandemic".
Asked about what steps he took to mitigate the impact of the pandemic on minority healthcare workers and patients, Hancock says he did a number of things, including ensuring people had access to correctly-fitting PPE.
He adds that he believed there was a disproportionate impact on different minority groups, due to their disproportionate employment in patient-facing roles.
Asked if this was, at least in part, the result of structural inequalities, Hancock says "yes".
Why didn't you challenge adviser's comments, Hancock asked
Video content
Video caption: 'Why didn't you challenge your aide on care homes?''Why didn't you challenge your aide on care homes?'
Sticking with questions on disability, Friedman now brings up a message to Hancock from a media adviser on 4 April 2020, about testing for Covid in care homes.
The adviser suggests that questions may be asked about why there is not more testing for the virus in care homes given the discharge policy, even though he adds many care home residents are near the end of their lives.
Friedman asks why Hancock didn't point out, in reply, that many residents were disabled people not near the end of their lives.
Hancock says he "absolutely" had that fact at the forefront of his mind and cared deeply about it, but he was "exceptionally busy" at the time and was aware that the adviser was coming at this "from a comms point of view".
On the other hand, he says he was determined to be guided on the testing issue by "clinical prioritisation" of testing capacity. The reason, he adds, that we did not do enough testing was because we did not have enough tests.
Hancock pressed on plans to help disabled people
Hancock is now being questioned by the representative for disabled people's organisations, Danny Friedman KC, about what he calls a lack of a cross-departmental plan for disabled people.
In response, the former health secretary says they did discuss the impact of Covid on those vulnerable to the disease, but "one disability may lead you to being much more vulnerable" than others.
Friedman presses Hancock on the question, asking specifically about cross-departmental planning.
Hancock says it was discussed, but couldn't say when.
When asked about whose responsibility that would be, he says in the pandemic "that's a big question".
Watch: School closures could have been avoided - Hancock
A little earlier, Matt Hancock said if the government had taken action sooner in locking down, they might not have had to close schools in January 2021.
Take a look at the moment in this 27-second clip below:
Video content
Video caption: Matt Hancock: 'We might not have had to close schools'Matt Hancock: 'We might not have had to close schools'
'Why weren't more children allowed to play together?'
We're back after the break, and Rajiv Menon KC - who represents children's rights organisations - is asking about lockdown rules.
Hancock is asked why the government did not take steps to relax regulations in relation to exercise so all young children could play with those the same age.
"The impact on children was much lower than compared to adults," Hancock answers as he points to two concerning factors raised by clinicians - including specifically from the chief medical officer.
"When children play together you still have transmission from one another - from one household to another," he says.
"When children play together, usually adults are present and therefore it may encourage transmission."
How vaccines affected arguments on lockdown
Jim Reed
Health reporter
Pfizer was the first drug company to report successful results for its Covid vaccine on 9 November 2020 with AstraZeneca not far behind.
The real possibility of a working jab shifted the debate about lockdown that autumn.
If you think a widespread vaccine programme is around the corner, then it strengthens the argument to impose tough restrictions, Hancock argues.
It means you might only have to lock down temporarily for a short period of time while the most vulnerable are jabbed, rather than facing the prospect of a series of restrictions with no end in sight.
Hancock said it was a "running joke" in Whitehall that he was the only person confident that a vaccine was coming quickly, although "to give him his credit" the prime minister supported that view as well.
As it was, the UK became the first country to start rolling out a Covid jab on 8 December 2020.
Hancock accuses Sturgeon of 'confusing and unhelpful' communication
Claire Mitchell KC, representing the Scottish Covid Bereaved group, asks Hancock about public communications between the UK government and Scottish government.
The inquiry is shown WhatsApp messages from a group chat where Hancock mentions getting an announcement out before the first minister - Nicola Sturgeon at the time - could.
Speaking to the inquiry, Hancock says at times Sturgeon would communicate things in a "confusing" and "unhelpful" way.
Decisions were much more difficult at a first minister level, he says, particularly with Sturgeon, as "some kind of spin" would be added to what was essentially the same decision.
He then says he believes agreements about the timing of communications were breached by the first minister.
Weekly call to health ministers felt like 'therapy sessions' - Hancock
Just before the break, Bethan Harris asked about working between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland in the pandemic.
She brings up the following document showing proposals to move out of lockdown in the middle of May 2020:
Covid inquiryCopyright: Covid inquiry
Hancock says coordination and communication was "important" and he enjoyed his relationships with his three counterparts in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
He says weekly meetings felt like "therapy sessions" as they talked about challenges being faced in their nations.
"We had a constructive relationship," Hancock says.
Inquiry takes a break
The inquiry is taking a short break.
Stay with us as we catch you up on a few lines we heard from the hearing before this pause.
Rational and reasonable to discharge patients to care homes - Hancock
Hancock says it was "rational" and "reasonable" to discharge people from hospital to care homes.
The former health secretary says his fear was if patients had been left in hospital more would have caught Covid.
"No-one .... brought to me a better decision," Hancock tells the inquiry, insisting if there was one he would want to know about it.
Live Reporting
Edited by Nathan Williams
All times stated are UK
Analysis
EPACopyright: EPA -
On Thursday, Hancock defended his
handling of the Covid pandemic
-
But, he said many lives could have been saved if the first national
lockdown had been introduced three weeks
earlier
-
He denied being a liar or
being overconfident - contrary
to previous evidence given by other witnesses in the inquiry including Dominic
Cummings
-
Hancock insisted he had been forceful because he wanted to "wake up Whitehall"
-
Had the UK locked down earlier in the autumn of 2020, then
Hancock believed schools may not have
needed to close
-
Hancock said some regional leaders during the pandemic "put politics ahead of public health"
-
He claimed former Scottish First
Minister Nicola Sturgeon would communicate with the public "in a
way that was unhelpful and confusing"
-
Hancock accepted "transgressions" in
his personal life may have impacted the public's confidence in rules put in
place to stop the spread of Covid. He resigned as
health secretary in June 2021 after footage emerged of him kissing aide
Gina Coladangelo
Video caption: 'Why didn't you challenge your aide on care homes?''Why didn't you challenge your aide on care homes?' Video caption: Matt Hancock: 'We might not have had to close schools'Matt Hancock: 'We might not have had to close schools' 
Covid inquiryCopyright: Covid inquiry
Latest PostThat's it for today - more next week
Thank you for joining our coverage of Matt Hancock's questioning. The inquiry is done for the day, but will be back questioning former PM Boris Johnson next week.
And if you missed any of today's session, you can catch up on everything that happened today here.
This page was brought to you by Thomas Mackintosh, Alex Smith, Chas Geiger, Gem O'Reilly, Dulcie Lee and Nathan Williams.
Cummings vs Hancock
Chris Mason
Political editor
The slanging match between Boris Johnson’s former chief adviser Dominic Cummings and those around Matt Hancock continues with gusto.
Cummings tweeted about "another total lie from Hancock" over his evidence on shielding at the inquiry.
An ally of Matt Hancock said: "Matt commissioned a shielding plan the first week of March. The fact Cummings didn't know about it speaks volumes."
A 'toxic culture' and a lockdown that 'should have happened earlier'
Hugh Pym
Health editor
His appearance was much anticipated and Matt Hancock’s evidence in a marathon session lasting a day and a half has thrown up many talking points, some unexpected.
His response to allegations by some other witnesses, including Dominic Cummings, that he had at times been hugely overconfident and less than truthful was robust.
He pointed the finger at a “malign” actor in Downing Street and condemned what he called a “toxic” culture. So far so predictable. The inquiry and the court of public opinion will weigh up those claims and rebuttals.
The big surprise was his contention that lockdown should have happened three weeks earlier in March 2020 and this could have saved thousands of lives. He was also adamant that firmer action could have been taken earlier in the autumn and this could have reduced the need to take such draconian action in early January 2021 which, controversially, included school closures.
This sets the scene for the evidence to be given by Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak over the next two weeks. Their responses on the lockdown timing questions will be watched closely.
On the care home issue Hancock was candid, he admitted that the protective ring he had talked of was less robust than first suggested. But he said the choices were very difficult, leaving the elderly in hospital rather than discharging them to care homes might have exposed them to a greater risk of getting the virus.
For bereaved families this is a critical issue. They will have to wait for a later stage of the inquiry for it to be examined more closely.
Key moments from Hancock's two days of evidence
Thomas Mackintosh
Live reporter
Let's quickly recap the key moments from what the former health secretary said:
Inquiry finishes for the day
The inquiry has finished questioning former Health Secretary Matt Hancock, and has come to a close for the day.
Next week we'll hear from the man at the very centre of government during the pandemic - former PM Boris Johnson.
Why wasn't more done to communicate long Covid risks, Hancock asked
Speaking on behalf of the long Covid groups, Anthony Metzer KC asks Hancock why more wasn't done to communicate the risk of long Covid to the public.
In July 2020, Hancock accepts he took written evidence on this, but admits it took six weeks to launch the plan.
"I repeatedly discussed long Covid", Hancock says, adding he felt like it was an area he "needed to push".
He says he believes concerns about long Covid were an important reason as to why the disease needed to be tackled.
Did risk of increase in domestic abuse factor into thinking on lockdown?
Liz Davies KC, representing Solace Womens Aid and Southall Black Sisters, raises the issue of domestic violence.
In normal times, she observes, women experiencing violence at home often go to their sister's, mother's or best friend's to get some respite time.
Why, she asks, was there nothing in the regulations in the spring of 2020 to allow women at risk to use this form of sanctuary?
Hancock says he does not recall this being raised. If it had been, he add, he is "highly confident" it would have been put in place as the impact on spreading the virus would have been relatively low.
Davies then asks if the increase in domestic abuse evident by the summer was in Hancock's mind when he was facing up to a second wave of Covid.
Hancock replies that this was one of the known costs of lockdown - but had to be weighed against the impact of the virus and not taking further lockdown action.
If I had a magic wand I'd double sick pay - Hancock
Now it is the turn of Samuel Jacobs who represents the Trade Union Congress (TUC) who starts by talking about sick pay during the pandemic.
Hancock tells the inquiry he believes sick pay is "far, far too low" in the UK.
"It encourages people to go to work when they should be getting better," Hancock says adding if he had a "magic wand" he would double it.
Hancock said he pushed for isolation payments from the start of the pandemic noting they came into place in September.
He also praises the TUC and former general secretary Frances O'Grady for their advocacy on the issues.
Ventilation became more important as we understood science - Hancock
Hancock is now being asked about what he knew about the airborne transmission of the virus.
He says figuring out how Covid was transmitted was important, but the science behind it was "quite complex".
Early on, Hancock says, it was largely assumed that droplets caused transmission, but in summer 2020 it became clear that airborne transmission was more important - leading to a change in advice.
Droplets are large, and released by things such as coughing and sneezing, whereas airborne particles are tiny and can stay in the air for a long time.
Because of this shift in position, he says ventilation was now seen as more important at preventing the spread of the virus - something that was not understood at the start of the pandemic.
To stop healthcare workers dying, we had to stop Covid - Hancock
Next, Matt Hancock is asked about the impact on doctors and health professionals by Brian Stanton from the British Medical Association.
He is asked to what extent he was able to advocate on behalf of health workers after first wave, who Stanton says desperately needed time to recover from that first wave.
Hancock says he felt that argument "very deeply".
"To stop healthcare workers dying, you had to stop Covid," Hancock says, as he adds healthcare workers were the first to get the vaccine when it became available.
Hancock questioned on ethnic minority deaths in the NHS
Now Leslie Thomas KC, representing the Federation of Ethnic Minority Healthcare Organisations, asks Hancock what steps he took to work with ethnic minority leaders, given the number of deaths among ethnic minorities.
Hancock says he "engaged with NHS leadership" on the deaths of those from all backgrounds, but says he was particularly focused on the deaths of minorities, and racism within the NHS.
This last point, he says, he was concerned about "well before the pandemic".
Asked about what steps he took to mitigate the impact of the pandemic on minority healthcare workers and patients, Hancock says he did a number of things, including ensuring people had access to correctly-fitting PPE.
He adds that he believed there was a disproportionate impact on different minority groups, due to their disproportionate employment in patient-facing roles.
Asked if this was, at least in part, the result of structural inequalities, Hancock says "yes".
Why didn't you challenge adviser's comments, Hancock asked
Video content
Sticking with questions on disability, Friedman now brings up a message to Hancock from a media adviser on 4 April 2020, about testing for Covid in care homes.
The adviser suggests that questions may be asked about why there is not more testing for the virus in care homes given the discharge policy, even though he adds many care home residents are near the end of their lives.
Friedman asks why Hancock didn't point out, in reply, that many residents were disabled people not near the end of their lives.
Hancock says he "absolutely" had that fact at the forefront of his mind and cared deeply about it, but he was "exceptionally busy" at the time and was aware that the adviser was coming at this "from a comms point of view".
On the other hand, he says he was determined to be guided on the testing issue by "clinical prioritisation" of testing capacity. The reason, he adds, that we did not do enough testing was because we did not have enough tests.
Hancock pressed on plans to help disabled people
Hancock is now being questioned by the representative for disabled people's organisations, Danny Friedman KC, about what he calls a lack of a cross-departmental plan for disabled people.
In response, the former health secretary says they did discuss the impact of Covid on those vulnerable to the disease, but "one disability may lead you to being much more vulnerable" than others.
Friedman presses Hancock on the question, asking specifically about cross-departmental planning.
Hancock says it was discussed, but couldn't say when.
When asked about whose responsibility that would be, he says in the pandemic "that's a big question".
Watch: School closures could have been avoided - Hancock
A little earlier, Matt Hancock said if the government had taken action sooner in locking down, they might not have had to close schools in January 2021.
Take a look at the moment in this 27-second clip below:
Video content
'Why weren't more children allowed to play together?'
We're back after the break, and Rajiv Menon KC - who represents children's rights organisations - is asking about lockdown rules.
Hancock is asked why the government did not take steps to relax regulations in relation to exercise so all young children could play with those the same age.
"The impact on children was much lower than compared to adults," Hancock answers as he points to two concerning factors raised by clinicians - including specifically from the chief medical officer.
"When children play together you still have transmission from one another - from one household to another," he says.
"When children play together, usually adults are present and therefore it may encourage transmission."
How vaccines affected arguments on lockdown
Jim Reed
Health reporter
Pfizer was the first drug company to report successful results for its Covid vaccine on 9 November 2020 with AstraZeneca not far behind.
The real possibility of a working jab shifted the debate about lockdown that autumn.
If you think a widespread vaccine programme is around the corner, then it strengthens the argument to impose tough restrictions, Hancock argues.
It means you might only have to lock down temporarily for a short period of time while the most vulnerable are jabbed, rather than facing the prospect of a series of restrictions with no end in sight.
Hancock said it was a "running joke" in Whitehall that he was the only person confident that a vaccine was coming quickly, although "to give him his credit" the prime minister supported that view as well.
As it was, the UK became the first country to start rolling out a Covid jab on 8 December 2020.
Hancock accuses Sturgeon of 'confusing and unhelpful' communication
Claire Mitchell KC, representing the Scottish Covid Bereaved group, asks Hancock about public communications between the UK government and Scottish government.
The inquiry is shown WhatsApp messages from a group chat where Hancock mentions getting an announcement out before the first minister - Nicola Sturgeon at the time - could.
Speaking to the inquiry, Hancock says at times Sturgeon would communicate things in a "confusing" and "unhelpful" way.
Decisions were much more difficult at a first minister level, he says, particularly with Sturgeon, as "some kind of spin" would be added to what was essentially the same decision.
He then says he believes agreements about the timing of communications were breached by the first minister.
Weekly call to health ministers felt like 'therapy sessions' - Hancock
Just before the break, Bethan Harris asked about working between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland in the pandemic.
She brings up the following document showing proposals to move out of lockdown in the middle of May 2020:
Hancock says coordination and communication was "important" and he enjoyed his relationships with his three counterparts in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
He says weekly meetings felt like "therapy sessions" as they talked about challenges being faced in their nations.
"We had a constructive relationship," Hancock says.
Inquiry takes a break
The inquiry is taking a short break.
Stay with us as we catch you up on a few lines we heard from the hearing before this pause.
Rational and reasonable to discharge patients to care homes - Hancock
Hancock says it was "rational" and "reasonable" to discharge people from hospital to care homes.
The former health secretary says his fear was if patients had been left in hospital more would have caught Covid.
"No-one .... brought to me a better decision," Hancock tells the inquiry, insisting if there was one he would want to know about it.