Summary

  • Health and Social Care Secretary Steve Barclay says it was a "difficult decision" to delay changes to how people pay for their care

  • The government has put off bringing in an £86,000 cap on costs for another two years

  • Barclay says that tackling delays in discharging patients is a priority

  • Labour's Jonathan Ashworth blames 12 years of Conservative government for the problems with health and social care in England

  1. Thank you for joining uspublished at 10:51 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    That's the end of our live coverage of Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg, we'll be back, same time, same place next week.

    We've got more on this morning's political interviews here - leading on Health Secretary Steve Barclay defending the delay to the social care cap.

    These updates were written by Jennifer Meierhans and the page was edited by Rob Corp - goodbye for now.

  2. World Cup should not have been held in Qatar - Morganpublished at 10:45 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    The panel were discussing the World Cup and we saw a clip of Fifa president Gianni Infantino's extraordinary monologue at a news conference in Doha.

    He opened by saying: "Today I have strong feelings. Today I feel Qatari, I feel Arab, I feel African, I feel gay, I feel disabled, I feel a migrant worker."

    Footballer Chloe Morgan says she is "appalled and disgusted" by his comments.

    "Not only are they very offensive to the people he's discussing there but it minimises the experiences that they've had...it completely detracts from the issues in the tournament which are huge".

    She adds: "For me, I don't think the tournament should have been held there at all, I think it's the wrong decision, I think it's the wrong location."

    She says it's thrown up significant issues around the abuse of migrant workers and as a member of the LGBTQ+ community herself, she is concerned about the safety of fans who are thinking of going to the tournament.

    She says there's been a massive U-turn on alcohol sales so what's to say this doesn't happen after the initial messages about Qatar being a very welcoming place and it's not going to be discriminatory?

  3. Barclay has a tough job and the government is vulnerable on health and carepublished at 10:42 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Laura Kuenssberg
    Presenter, Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg

    Health Secretary Steve Barclay has one of the toughest jobs in government.

    The NHS might have got some extra cash last week but there is no hiding how difficult things are for the health service with so many indicators going the wrong way.

    He did his best to defend the government's decision to delay making changes to the social care sector, again.

    But ministers are vulnerable on the issue as so many families’ experiences are painful and the system is not just creaking, but according to some people, on the brink of collapse.

    GMB union boss Gary Smith this morning didn’t mince his words saying he was "incandescent" at how the health secretary defended the government's position.

  4. Analysis

    NHS funding and staffing - how much and how many?published at 10:32 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    With both the Conservative Party’s Stephen Barclay and Labour’s Jonathan Ashworth asked about NHS funding, it’s worth a reminder of how much money the service costs.

    The budget for NHS England, external alone is currently about £153bn. It is expected to rise to £157bn in 2023-24.

    NHS Wales has a budget of about £25bn and in Northern Ireland it is £21bn. NHS Scotland has a budget of about £18bn for 2022-23.

    In the Autumn Statement, the government announced an extra £6.6bn for NHS England over the next two years.

    However, while the announcement was welcomed by many NHS leaders, external, it falls short of the £7bn funding gap , externalthat had been predicted for NHS England in the next year alone.

    There are also ongoing problems with NHS staffing.

    One issue is recruitment and retention. Around 3.5% of the nurse workforce in England left their posts, external in the year to September 2021.

    In total, there were more than 105,000 vacancies in NHS England during the first quarter of this year.

  5. Not enough in the Autumn Statement, says CBI chiefpublished at 10:25 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Tony Danker,who is director general of business group the Confederation of British Industry, says people are living longer so health and social care is going to need more money every year.

    He says if we don't have an economy that is growing we are not going to be able to pay for it.

    He says everyone knows health and social care and the NHS interact with each other - people trying to arrange for relatives to leave hospital into care experience this, he says.

    This idea that we will deal with the NHS now and we will come back to social care in a couple of years I don't think it works that way. We need to start reforming these systems now because we can't afford to keep up with the demands on the health system."

    Asked about the Autumn Statement he says he thought Chancellor Jeremy Hunt "did a good job with a bad hand".

    He says he hopes this is part one of a two-part plan because there was "really nothing there that tells us that the economy is going to avoid another decade of low productivity and low growth - that's the worry", he says.

  6. 'NHS cuts have tragic but avoidable consequences'published at 10:17 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Chloe Morgan

    Footballer and personal injury lawyer Chloe Morgan tells Laura Kuenssberg she has the same concerns following Steve Barclay's interview about he NHS.

    She says she deals with cases where there have been delays in diagnosing cancer and sees the impact that cuts to the NHS have on services.

    "We see delays, we see mismanagement, we see misdiagnoses and this is not me blaming the NHS, this is me blaming the fact that there have been cuts, that it's underfunded, that staff are put under an immense amount of pressure," she says.

    She says she sees the impact of that on a day-to-day basis and reads reports of tragic but often avoidable consequences.

  7. Union boss incandescent after Barclay interviewpublished at 10:11 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Gary Smith

    The Sunday panel has been sharing its thoughts on what health secretary Steve Barclay had to say about tackling the backlogs in the NHS and it's left Gary Smith, "incandescent".

    "I mean this is deluded and frankly pretty dishonest stuff from the secretary of state, the ambulance service, the health service and care were on their knees going to the pandemic and things have got worse," says Smith, who leads the GMB trade union.

    He says care workers are paid pennies above the minimum wage doing an increasingly professionalised and demanding role and that unless the country deals with the crisis in staffing in care it is not going to deal with the problems in the NHS.

    "Our care homes were turned into morgues during the pandemic because of mismanagement and cuts people are dying because of cuts in services," he says.

  8. Ashworth insists Labour's plans will be fully costedpublished at 10:08 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Jonathan Ashworth and Laura Kuenssberg

    Kuenssberg asks Ashworth how Labour would fill the £50bn black hole in the public finances.

    He says the party, if it came to power, would balance public spending and it will all be paid for with debt falling as a proportion of GDP.

    He says Labour would invest in green industries, renewables and hydrogen to bring back good quality jobs and for future economic stability.

    Pushed on how they would pay for these investments and grow the economy if Labour were in government, he says: "We have two years to go haven't we and in those two years we will have more fiscal statements and more budgets so I'm not going to write Labour budgets for 2026 and 2027 this morning but in our next manifesto every spending commitment we make will be fully costed."

  9. Labour's Ashworth: We would protect NHS by growing economypublished at 10:02 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Media caption,

    Jonathan Ashworth on whether Labour would have given the NHS £7bn

    We start by asking Labour's shadow work and pensions secretary Jonathan Ashworth if Labour would have given the NHS the full £7bn it asked for.

    He says the NHS does need investment but it needs staff so Labour would get rid of non-dom tax relief and use the money to recruit doctors and nurses.

    He says the way to fund the NHS is to grow the economy and for that you've got to invest in jobs and skills and help more people move into work.

    He says there are 2.5 million people forced out of work due to sickness and the over-50s leaving the work force.

    He says he would reform the way job centres work to support people and would link employment services with mental health services.

  10. Jonathan Ashworth uppublished at 09:51 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Jonathan Ashworth

    Next up is Labour’s Jonathan Ashworth - the shadow work and pensions secretary.

    He's asked initially to respond to the health secretary's earlier interview which focused on the NHS and social care.

  11. Humans to live on Moon by end of decade - Nasapublished at 09:41 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Orion capsule looks back to EarthImage source, NASA
    Image caption,

    Orion capsule looks back to Earth

    Laura Kuenssberg has been speaking to Nasa’s Howard Hu about this week’s successful launch of the Artemis rocket which the US space agency hopes will put humans back on the Moon in this decade.

    Hu is in charge of the Orion programme - the spacecraft which separates from the Artemis rocket and will take astronauts to the lunar surface and return them to Earth.

    He tells Kuenssberg that humans will be living on the Moon and conducting scientific experiments on the satellite’s surface by the end of the decade.

    He says that seeing the giant craft blast off from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida last week was an “unbelievable feeling” which gave him goose bumps.

    He calls it an “historic day for Nasa” and also an “historic day for all the people who love human space flight and deep space exploration”.

    Quote Message

    I mean, we are going back to the Moon, we’re working towards a sustainable programme and this is the vehicle that will carry the people that will land us back on the moon again. And I think this is one of the most important moments I think as we think about what the Apollo generation has done and now the Artemis generation.

    Howard Hu, Orion programme manager, Nasa

    Hu describes watching the mission’s progress like an “anxious parent”.

    Among the data Nasa is getting back from this uncrewed first mission comes from Moonikin Campos - a mannequin fitted with sensors which is monitoring the effects of the flight on the human body.

    And when will we see people living on the Moon? Hu tells Kuenssberg that it will be this decade - humans will be in habitats on the surface and using rovers to get about. But he says the missions are ultimately about science as they explore the Moon’s south pole to see whether water exists there. If it is, he adds, then that could be converted into a potential fuel for missions deeper into space - potentially to Mars.

    Howard HuImage source, NASA
  12. Barclay: Don't recognise talk of Swiss-style deal with EUpublished at 09:38 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Steve Barclay and Laura Kuenssberg

    Moving on, and Kuenssberg brings up the Autumn Statement and asks if things would be easier if the UK had a closer relationship with the EU.

    Barclay says we will be seizing the opportunities of Brexit.

    Kuenssberg asks about reports in this morning's Sunday Times that the UK could move to a Swiss-style trading deal with the EU - essentially getting better access to the single market without freedom of movement. Barclay replies: "No, I certainly don't recognise that story."

    Barclay - who campaigned for Brexit - says the UK wouldn't have rolled out the coronavirus vaccine as quickly if we had still been part of the EU but admits there are trade-offs in terms of the impact of Brexit.

  13. Barclay insists door is open to nurses' union amid strike threatpublished at 09:32 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Media caption,

    Health Secretary Steve Barclay challenged on ambulance delay deaths

    Kuenssberg asks if it's true that people are dying unnecessarily in ambulances because of a delay getting them into hospitals.

    Steve Barclay says "that is a material risk" and why it is so important that we fix the flow of patients through hospitals.

    He says about a fifth of the delay in discharging patients is down to what happens in hospital but the primary cause is the lack of places in domiciliary care and care homes.

    Kuenssberg says the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) has voted to strike over pay and conditions which it has never done before and asks the health secretary if he will seriously negotiate with them.

    He says his door is always open and he's been meeting with union leaders.

    Kuenssberg says that RCN general secretary Pat Cullen says these were not serious discussions on pay and patient safety.

    Barclay says he has listened and accepted in full recommendations on pay and gave nurses a 3% pay rise.

    Asked what he will do if nurses go on strike he says it is "important we continue talking".

  14. What was due to change in social care?published at 09:30 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Health Secretary Stephen Barclay was asked about the government’s decision to delay help with long-term care costs by two years.

    Chancellor Jeremy Hunt announced the move as part of Thursday’s Autumn Statement.

    Here’s a reminder of what had been due to change in October 2023:

    • People would no longer pay more than £86,000 towards their care during their lifetime.
    • The £86,000 limit, or cap, would only cover personal care, such as help washing or dressing. It would not cover living costs such as food, energy bills or accommodation
    • After people reach the £86,000 cap, personal care would be paid for by local authorities
    • People with assets under £20,000 wouldn't have to contribute to care costs (compared with £14,250 now). However, they might have to contribute from their income. Assets are things you own - like a house or savings
    • Those with between £20,000 and £100,000 would get help towards costs from their local council. This would be means-tested - so, it depends on things like income and property

    You can read our full explainer here

  15. Barclay says delaying social care reforms 'a difficult decision'published at 09:23 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Health Secretary Steve Barclay starts by saying it's been a difficult decision to delay reforms to social care but it's been done so the government can focus on fixing issues brought on by the Covid pandemic.

    He says there are 13,500 people in hospital who are ready to go home but can't because there are not enough care packages for them.

    He says this is having a knock-on effect on ambulance waiting times and the flow of patients through hospitals.

    He says the primary cause of people being delayed from leaving hospital is social care which is why the government is putting its investment there.

    He blames the pressure on the NHS during the coronavirus pandemic but Kuenessberg says these problems had been building before that.

    She says in February 2020 there were 4.5m on a waiting list for care and while Barclay admits there were challenges going into the pandemic he says that's why it's right to prioritise funding for care packages.

    Kuenssberg asks Barclay if he can tell people the NHS is working.

    He says he recognises it is under pressure but reforming the NHS without also focusing on care would not fix the problems.

  16. Up first is Steve Barclaypublished at 09:09 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    The first guest this morning is health and social care secretary for England, Steve Barclay, on how the government is going to tackle the NHS backlog of long waiting lists among other things.

    Steve Barclay
  17. On the airpublished at 09:01 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Ahead of the health secretary’s appearance on the programme, this week’s panel of Tony Danker, Chloe Morgan and Gary Smith will tell Laura Kuenssberg what they feel are the key matters to be addressed.

    Then we’ll hear from Steve Barclay, followed by Howard Hu of Nasa on this week’s launch of the Artemis rocket and Orion spacecraft which will eventually take humans back to the Moon, before we get Labour’s angle on the state of the country from Jonathan Ashworth.

    All this and more to come in the next hour.

  18. A guide to Nasa’s Orion spacecraftpublished at 08:57 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Orion spacecraftImage source, NASA
    Image caption,

    Orion spacecraft

    As we’ve been saying, later on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg we’ll be hearing from Nasa’s Howard Hu about the US space agency’s Artemis programme which aims to return humans to the Moon this decade.

    The BBC News science team have produced loads of really good content to help us understand the various parts of the spaceship which blasted off from Florida for the first time last week.

    So you can find out here all about Artemis, Paul Rincon’s long read on why Nasa wants to get back to Earth’s satellite and swot up on Orion - the part of the ship which carries the astronauts.

  19. Watch live from 09:00published at 08:53 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg is due up at the top of the hour, and you can watch the programme without leaving this page by clicking on the play button in the picture above.

    Stay with us for the latest news lines, quotes, and video clips as we follow the show - which features this week Health and Social Care Secretary Steve Barclay, shadow work and pensions secretary Jonathan Ashworth, and Nasa’s programme leader for the Orion spacecraft, Howard Hu.

  20. BBC News assesses Hunt’s spending pledgespublished at 08:49 Greenwich Mean Time 20 November 2022

    Care home staff helping a man

    While the government has announced measures aimed at fixing what it says is a “black hole” in the public finances, Jeremy Hunt also put forward revised public spending plans in the Autumn Statement. Three of the BBC’s specialist reporters have been looking over the commitments set out for education, health, and social care.

    Education correspondent Hazel Shearing says head teachers will be looking closely at the details contained in Mr Hunt’s pledge to spend an extra £2.3bn on schools in England over the next two years - amid warnings that any additional funding may be swallowed up by rising costs.

    In his analysis of the extra £3.3bn promised to the NHS in England, health correspondent Nick Triggle says that will go some way to plugging an estimated £7bn shortfall brought about by soaring inflation. But he says the health service's problems are also a shortage of staff and buildings in need of investment - issues which will take years to solve.

    Social affairs editor Alison Holt says Mr Hunt’s move to push back by two years the planned £86,000 cap on care costs has been described as“extraordinarily disappointing" by the man who drew up the policy, Sir Andrew Dilnot. And she adds, two-thirds of the promised extra funding for the social care sector is reliant on local authorities in England putting up their council tax by the maximum 5% and some may choose not to do that.

    Read our full analysis here.