Summary

  • Former Post Office boss Paula Vennells has been accused of living in "la-la land" as she appears for a final day of evidence at the Post Office inquiry

  • Edward Henry KC, representing some sub-postmasters, puts it to Vennells that she is in a "cloud of denial" about her role in the Horizon scandal

  • Vennells breaks down in tears at the inquiry again, saying she worked as hard as she could to deliver the best Post Office for the UK

  • It comes as a bill quashing convictions of sub-postmasters will come into law later after being approved by Parliament on Thursday

  • Between 1999 and 2015, more than 900 sub-postmasters were prosecuted because of the faulty Horizon system

  • Press play above to watch Paula Vennells live at the inquiry from 09:45 BST

  1. That concludes a fiery day at the Post Office inquirypublished at 16:00 British Summer Time 24 May

    Ali Abbas Ahmadi
    Reporting from the inquiry

    We expected a fiery day on Paula Vennells' last day at the inquiry, and that's what we got.

    The former Post Office CEO faced questions from a several lawyers representing sub-postmasters, who did not hold back.

    "You preach compassion but don't practice it," one said right at the beginning.

    The room was jam packed - I saw a couple of people actually looking for spare seats in the chamber. There was sarcastic laughter each time Vennells said she was not involved in the scandal, and the audience scoffed at her apologies.

    One sub-postmaster told me he actually felt some sympathy for her during the first half of the day.

    But things changed after lunch, when Tim Moloney took over questioning.

    The most significant moment was when the audience booed Vennells for apologising for an email in which she said she was "bored" listening to sub-postmasters on television, and that Jo Hamilton - who was in the room - "lacked passion".

    By then, someone seated nearby told me, there was no sympathy left.

    Thank you for joining us today. We will be closing our live page shortly. You can read more about today's events here and about the Horizon scandal here.

  2. What have we learned from this afternoon?published at 15:54 British Summer Time 24 May

    The inquiry sat for a shorter session this afternoon during which Tim Moloney KC, who represents a group of sub-postmasters, directed his questions towards Vennells.

    Here are some key moments from the last hour or so:

    • Vennells was questioned about an email mistakenly sent to the Post Office's operations director. It included questions about Fujitsu and discussions around a potential class action legal case against the organisation. Vennells said she would not have written it in the tone that Moloney had read it aloud but acknowledged she was "clearly irritated"
    • A further email was referenced at the end of the session. In it, Vennells wrote that wrongly-convicted sub-postmistress Jo Hamilton "lacked passion and admitted false accounting" on The One Show. Vennells acknowledged the tone of the email was not the kind of example she would normally want to set for the organisation
    • Meanwhile, a bill quashing convictions from the Horizon IT scandal was approved by Parliament on Thursday - one of the last bills to pass ahead of the general election - and will come into law later today

  3. Watch: Vennells listed omitting Horizon from report as 'key achievement'published at 15:51 British Summer Time 24 May

    This morning, Paula Vennells was pushed on whether she tried "keeping a lid" on the Horizon scandal.

    Tim Moloney KC, who has former sub-postmistress Jo Hamilton sitting next to him, produced a report which shows that Paula Vennells listed keeping the Post Office Horizon IT issues out of the Royal Mail's privatisation prospectus in 2013.

    She said the reference was not "helpful" and "could have been picked up an misinterpreted".

    Media caption,

    Watch: Vennells listed keeping Horizon out of report as 'key achievement'

  4. Did the mask slip, Moloney asks Vennellspublished at 15:37 British Summer Time 24 May

    Before the inquiry wrapped for the day, questions continued about the BBC Today programme email and the example Vennells wished to set for her colleagues.

    Moloney asks: “Was the real example that you wished to set for your colleagues this: Don’t say what you think in an email, only say what you’d be happy to have read in a court room?”

    Vennells doesn’t respond, so Moloney continues: “Is that, in reality, the approach you took to [former sub-postmaster and campaigner] Tim McCormack, remain calm at all times, give the appearance of politeness?”

    She says no, that she “made a mistake here” and that it is a terrible example of what she tried not to do.

    “Did the mask slip in this email, Ms Vennells,” Moloney asks.

    At first she doesn’t respond, then says “I made a mistake in this email.”

    “Is the reality of what you said here that it reflected the behind-closed-doors attitude to postmasters?” Moloney continues.

    She says no.

    He then asks whether she saw them as “irritants” and that it was important to refute what they were saying.

    She says no again and repeats the email was a “terrible mistake”.

  5. I attempted to take my life three times, says former sub-postmasterpublished at 15:31 British Summer Time 24 May

    Ali Abbas Ahmadi
    Reporting from the inquiry

    Parmod Kalia
    Image caption,

    Parmod Kalia was convicted in 2002, and it was only overturned in 2021

    I was sitting with a sub-postmaster over lunch today, whose story highlights how sub-postmasters suffered because of the Horizon scandal.

    Parmod Kalia was a sub-postmaster in Orpington, Kent. He was wrongly convicted in 2002 and served six months in jail. His conviction was only eventually overturned in 2021.

    "It led to depression, stress and anxiety," he says, tearing up. "I attempted to take my life three times."

    He says he was forced to hide his conviction until 2021 from his mother because he feared she would "have a heart attack".

    The day of his exoneration should have been a happy one, Kalia says, but it never was as he did not receive any compensation from the Post Office.

    It was only after the ITV drama spurred the government into action earlier this year that he was told he would get some compensation.

    On Paula Vennells, he says she was the CEO and "she's supposed to have known everything". Instead she is "passing the buck".

    "Absolute power absolutely corrupts. And she had absolute power," he says.

  6. A conviction 'affects everything', says sub-postmasterpublished at 15:28 British Summer Time 24 May

    We've been talking to sub-postmasters throughout the day.

    Someone who understands what the new law overturning Post Office convictions really means to a person is Scott Darlington.

    The former sub-postmaster ran a branch in Cheshire but was convicted of false accounting in 2010 and he was given a suspended sentence. It took a decade for his conviction to be quashed and it affected "everything", he remembers.

    "When you apply for a job, you've got to tick that you've got a criminal record. I was 50-odd years old having to do that so I couldn't get a job for three and a half years," he told the BBC.

  7. Public boos Vennells in the inquiry chamberpublished at 15:07 British Summer Time 24 May

    Ali Abbas Ahmadi
    Reporting from the inquiry

    Jo Hamilton sits next to Tim Moloney in the inquiryImage source, Post Office Inquiry
    Image caption,

    Jo Hamilton (r) sits next to Tim Moloney in the inquiry

    That was an extraordinary revelation.

    Vennells is shown an email from 2014 that she wrote insulting sub-postmasters - in which she said wrongly convicted sub-postmistress Jo Hamilton "lacked passion and admitted false accounting" on The One Show.

    A chorus of boos rings out around the room.

    "That was triumphalist, wasn't it?" Moloney asks.

    Vennells replies that there is "simply no excuse" for her words in that email, and adds that she had apologised to Hamilton for her words.

    "What example did you want to set [to your organisation]?" Moloney asks.

    "The example I was not setting in that email," Vennells replies, to more sarcastic laughter.

    Moloney suggests that the email showed Vennells' true attitude, that the "mask had slipped".

    Has the truth come out in the email? he asks.

    "No," replies Vennells.

    "Yes," says one of the people sitting next to me.

  8. Inquiry wraps up for todaypublished at 15:06 British Summer Time 24 May

    The inquiry has ended for today - the third day of evidence from Paula Vennells.

    We've got a few more details to bring you before we finish our coverage, so stay with us.

  9. Vennells asked if 'lifestyle difficulties' appropriate way to describe postmasters' situationpublished at 14:54 British Summer Time 24 May

    Ali Abbas Ahmadi
    Reporting from the inquiry

    Email containing the phrase "lifestyle difficulties"Image source, Post Office Inquiry

    Tim Moloney has pulled up a note from for the Post Office's former PR head Mark Davies, where he apologises for calling sub-postmasters' experiences, following their wrongful prosecution, as 'lifestyle difficulties'.

    You've now got a sense of what that feels like, haven't you? he asks Paula Vennells.

    She replies that she would never use that language, and that Davies had not meant to use it either.

    People laugh.

    If someone said to you that "you have lifestyle difficulties right now", would you see that as somewhat sarcastic? he asks.

    The room laughs again, as Vennells repeats that she wouldn't have used those words.

    Wasn't it the dismissive attitude that you encouraged in the Post Office? he asks.

    "No," Vennells replies.

    Scoffs and murmurs.

  10. 'I was irritated': Vennells quizzed on 'angry' email sent to wrong personpublished at 14:47 British Summer Time 24 May

    Email from Paula Vennells to Mike YoungImage source, Post Office Inquiry

    Tim Moloney is reading out an email from October 2011 that Paula Vennells had sent by mistake to Mike Young, who was operations director at the Post Office.

    It was originally intended for Lesley Sewell, the Post Office's former IT chief, and included questions about Fujitsu and discussions around a potential class action legal case against the organisation.

    "It doesn't help our IT credibility if I'm on the back foot with what's going on," the end of the email reads.

    Vennells responded to the email by saying it was meant for Sewell and said although she sounded "cross" in it, she was not.

    Moloney asks if she had to "rewind quickly" when she realised she'd sent it to the wrong person.

    Vennells says she would never had written in the tone that Moloney had just read it aloud.

    Moloney says the reality is he thinks Vennells realised she had sounded cross.

    "I was clearly irritated ... but what I say, and I think this is true, is that it isn't always easy to judge tone in emails, and the questions I were asking were valid questions," Vennells says.

  11. Cleared sub-postmasters will have to wait for confirmationpublished at 14:40 British Summer Time 24 May

    Dearbail Jordan
    Business reporter

    Sub-postmasters will not get official confirmation that their convictions have been overturned for a few weeks - because of the general election.

    Prior to this week's general election announcement, the bill to quash convictions related to the Post Office Horizon scandal had been expected to get royal assent in July.

    Because that's when the general election is now being held some bills have had to be rushed through before before Parliament is prorogued, and will therefore become law much earlier than expected.

    Sub-postmasters will get a letter telling them their conviction has been quashed but it won't be today.

  12. Lawyer warned of importance of controlling creation of documents, inquiry hearspublished at 14:25 British Summer Time 24 May

    Tim Moloney speaking in the inquiryImage source, Post Office Inquiry

    Tim Moloney KC, who is representing some sub-postmasters, is asking Paula Vennells about the importance of legal professional privilege, which protects certain confidential communications from disclosure.

    Moloney shows an email dated 2011 from a senior Royal Mail lawyer, Emily Springford, and reads a line which says "it is very important we control the creation of documents".

    He reads another which says "think very carefully about replying to all on an email".

    He asks Vennells if she saw the advice.

    "I don't believe I did", Vennells says, going on to say the email strikes her as "an odd thing to say".

    Moloney describes the advice contained in the email as "poor orthodoxy" and trickled down into how individuals at the Post Office behaved.

  13. Watch: Vennells becomes teary and says 'I loved the Post Office'published at 14:14 British Summer Time 24 May

    Here is the clip of an exchange from this morning during which Paula Vennells broke down in tears.

    Watch the moment below.

    Media caption,

    Vennells becomes teary and says 'I loved the Post Office'

  14. 'I believed her tears were genuine' - former sub-postmistresspublished at 14:05 British Summer Time 24 May

    Azadeh Moshiri
    Reporting from outside the inquiry

    Janet Skinner

    Janet Skinner was jailed in 2007 for nine months over an alleged shortfall of £59,000 from her Post Office branch in Hull.

    And yet, despite her ordeal, on the first day of Paula Vennells’ testimony, she couldn’t help but feel sorry for her.

    She tells me: “I believed her tears were genuine."

    Janet remembers her own experience of being grilled by lawyers. But on this final day of testimony, she says “that empathy has gone over a cliff now”.

    She believes Vennells was “over-paid and under-qualified”.

    And as so many former sub-postmasters and postmistresses have told me, she doesn’t want Vennells to be scapegoated.

    Janet says that “this goes far further than just one person, and everyone needs to be held accountable”.

  15. And we're backpublished at 14:02 British Summer Time 24 May

    The inquiry has returned from lunch after a busy morning.

    As a reminder, you can watch the inquiry live by pressing the play button at the top of this page.

  16. Justice is too long and too costly, says campaigner Lord Arbuthnotpublished at 13:53 British Summer Time 24 May

    Lord Arbuthnot, a long-standing campaigner for the sub-postmasters, says he always believed that justice would prevail in relation to sub-postmasters' names being cleared but he knew it would "take too long and cost too much money".

    The peer took time out from watching ex-Post Office boss Paula Vennells at the inquiry to talk to the BBC.

    Asked if he ever thought the day would come when sub-postmasters would see their convictions overturned, he said that it occurred to him last year that all Horizon convictions should have been re-visited and were unsafe.

    "I did believe justice would eventually be done," he said, but as is often the case, it was a long time coming.

  17. Sub-postmasters express happiness at law to quash convictionspublished at 13:47 British Summer Time 24 May

    Tom Espiner
    Business reporter

    The BBC caught up with two campaigning sub-postmasters at the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry to get their reactions about convictions being quashed – although this doesn’t affect them personally.

    Former sub postmaster Lee Castleton, who was made bankrupt by the Post Office after a two-year legal battle, says the news is “fantastic” and “wonderful”.

    “It just shows you how much we can do in this country when we want to.” He credited MPs with moving quickly to get the law through Parliament.

    Former Post Office worker Lee Castleton outside the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry at Aldwych House, central London on Wednesday, before his former boss Paula Vennells was due to start giving evidence.Image source, PA Media
    Image caption,

    Lee Castleton has been at the Post Office Inquiry this week to hear his former boss Paula Vennells give evidence

    Jo Hamilton, who was prosecuted for a shortfall of £36,000 at her Post Office in 2006, says it is “amazing how fast the government can do things when they want”, but called for claimants in the Group Litigation Order to be paid compensation quickly.

    There are different compensation schemes in place to pay wronged sub-postmasters, with the Group Litigation Order relating to the 555 sub-postmasters in the group brought together by Alan Bates.

    “Please, for God’s sake, pay the group,” she says. “Now we’re going into an election and that will all get kicked down the road”.

    She says people such as 91-year-old Betty Brown were “running out of road” to get compensation.

    “How much longer will she have to wait?” Hamilton adds.

    Former sub-postmistress Jo Hamilton leaves after former Post Office boss Paula Vennells gave her second day of evidence to the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry at Aldwych House, central London.Image source, PA Media
    Image caption,

    Jo Hamilton has also been at the inquiry in London

  18. Key moments from this morningpublished at 13:33 British Summer Time 24 May

    Former Post Office boss Paula Vennells has faced intense questioning from Sam Stein KC and Edward Henry KC, each representing a number of victims, on her final day of evidence to the inquiry.

    Here are the key moments:

    • Edward Henry KC said the account of events given by Vennells, specifically in relation to how much she knew about remote access of the Horizon system, was "la-la land, isn't it?"
    • Vennells was accused of giving a "craven, self-serving account" and continuing to live in a "cloud of denial"
    • Her testimony coincided with the passing of the Post Office Offences Bill, which overturns the convictions of many sub-postmasters and postmistresses and comes into law later today
    • Vennells was also accused of "keeping the lid" on the findings from a 2013 report from independent forensic accountant Second Sight
    • She was asked if this related to the privatisation of Royal Mail, which also took place that year. The Post Office and Royal Mail had previously been part of the same group
    • Pushed on whether she had ignored problems with the Horizon IT scandal because it threatened plans for expansion, Vennells broke down in tears said she "loves the Post Office"
    • Vennells also repeated a familiar refrain from her previous days of evidence, that she relied on expertise from colleagues and did not oversee every decision

  19. Vennells asked about Post Office status in Scotlandpublished at 13:25 British Summer Time 24 May

    Just before the lunchbreak we heard from Christie Allan, representing sub-postmaster Susan Sinclair who was the first to successfully appeal her conviction in Scotland, last year.

    Allan asks Vennells about a statement made by Lord Advocate Dorothy Bain KC to the Scottish parliament last week that the Post Office had been stripped of its status as a specialist reporting agency in Scotland.

    Specialist reporting agencies can investigate and report criminal allegations directly to the Crown Office, without having to report it to Police Scotland.

    Vennells responds that she thinks it's a very appropriate response.

  20. Inquiry pauses for lunchpublished at 13:10 British Summer Time 24 May

    The inquiry has now paused for lunch. It will resume at 14:00 BST.

    We'll have more updates during the hour and will recap the key moments so far this morning.