Summary

  • Renewable Heat Incentive Inquiry examining botched energy scheme

  • Tim Cairns, former DUP adviser to minister Jonathan Bell, gives evidence

  • Inquiry set up after public concern over scheme's huge projected overspend

  • Retired Court of Appeal judge Sir Patrick Coghlin chairing inquiry at Stormont

  • Public hearings entering critical phase with high-profile witnesses giving evidence

  1. Inquiry resumes after lunch breakpublished at 14:08 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    The RHI InquiryImage source, RHI Inquiry

    With everyone back in the Senate chamber after a bite to eat and a stretch of the legs, inquiry counsel Donal Lunny resumes his questioning of former DUP adviser Tim Cairns...

  2. Time for lunch...published at 13:17 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    The inquiry breaks to allow everyone to grab a sandwich - join us again at 14:00 for the afternoon session.

  3. 'We should've told Bell to get back to department'published at 13:16 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Enterprise minister Jonathan Bell's absence from DETI in August 2015 was "clearly problematic all round", says Mr Cairns.

    There "was a lot of urgent" business that needed to be addressed, he says, but the minister was on holiday.

    Jonathan BellImage source, Pacemaker

    "It wasn't only the RHI on the bubble that needed to be dealt with," he adds, and in discussions t with the minister's private secretary they agreed that the situation was "unsatisfactory".

    He accepts that he or the department's top civil servant "should've said: 'Minister, you need to get down here - things are backing up in the system.'"

  4. 'No evidence of cynical motives for RHI delay'published at 13:12 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Mr Cairns says there's no evidence that he had any no cynical motives for trying to delay the introduction of cost controls in the RHI scheme.

    Tractors in a fieldImage source, PA

    "They may have been other people's motives but they certainly weren't mine," he says.

    He explains that he doesn't have any "connections within the industry or within the farming community".

  5. 'Open sore of resistance not hinted to me'published at 13:11 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Senior DETI civil servant Mr Stewart told the inquiry in June that that officials had encountered resistance from Mr Cairns to the RH scheme changes for no good reason.

    The RHI InquiryImage source, RHI Inquiry

    Asked about that, Mr Cairns says that complaints of an "open sore of resistance that seemed to fester" were never expressed to him.

    "I was completely unaware of its existence - it was never even hinted at at the time" he says.

  6. 'Crawford and I agreed cost controls would proceed'published at 12:58 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Dr Crawford's plan to increase the threshold of hours in which RHI scheme claimants could receive the top rate of subsidy was "never seriously going to happen", says Mr Cairns.

    He tells the inquiry that he was content for it to be dropped as soon as officials told him that it was not a runner because it didn't represent value for money.

    A hand holding cashImage source, Getty Images

    He passed the message on to Dr Crawford that the plan had been rejected and he says they accepted that they would have to go ahead with the existing cost controls plan coming into effect on 1 October 2015.

    "Myself and Dr Crawford were in common cause - the process was at an end."

  7. 'Danger of abuse of RHI was hypothetical'published at 12:43 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Dr Crawford told Mr Cairns in an email at the end of July 2015 that a weakness in the RHI scheme meant that people were able to heat empty poultry houses for profit.

    A biomass boiler

    Asked if he recognised that as representing a "perverse incentive" to game the scheme, Mr Cairns says he drew it to the attention of DETI's deputy permanent secretary Chris Stewart who dealt with it '"as a hypothetical".

    The official's attitude was "there's no-one who's doing this but yes that could be done", adds the witness, who says he he took comfort from Mr Stewart's advice.

  8. 'Adviser's RHI proposal not attempt to run clock down'published at 12:33 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    At the end of July 2015, Dr Crawford suggested to Mr Cairns a change to the RHI scheme's cost controls plan.

    It was to increase the threshold of hours that a claimant could run their biomass boiler for before RHI scheme payments would be reduced.

    DETI's plan was to mirror the threshold in the similar RHI scheme in Great Britain of 1,314 hours but Dr Crawford wanted that to be more-than-doubled to 3,000.

    Wood pelletsImage source, Getty Images

    Officials later dismissed it, saying it had no merit on value-for-money terms and would effectively render the rest of the cost controls plan ineffective - one said he saw it as a tactical plan to stall the cost controls.

    Asked if he viewed it as a "nonsensical" plan, Mr Cairns says he didn't give it much thought before he took it to DETI officials.

    And he adds that he didn't see it as an attempt by Dr Crawford to "run the clock down".

  9. 'Meeting hugely memorable due to Bell's lack of preparation'published at 12:18 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Mr Cairns recalls a meeting with Mr Bell on 30 July 2015 when he says the 8 July RHI scheme submission about cost controls and recommendations from officials was discussed.

    He says he remembers it well due to the minister's "lack of preparation", which made it "hugely memorable for everybody that attended".

    Jonathan BellImage source, RHI Inquiry

    Mr Cairns says the meeting was "informal as informal can be".

    He claims that he relayed to the minister the result of his discussions with Dr Crawford and the suggestion that they should seek to introduce the RHI changes at the latest date the officials would accept.

  10. 'Nothing underhand about how I worked with officials'published at 12:04 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    DETI's second most senior civil servant Chris Stewart (below) had told the inquiry that he sensed "resistance" from the DUP to the addition of cost controls to the RHI scheme during the summer of 2015.

    He also said that officials felt like they were "being treated as the opposition" by ministers and advisers from the party.

    Chris StewartImage source, RHI Inquiry

    Mr Cairns says it "kind of aggrieved me" when he read that: "I wish he'd said: 'I felt on a different team to you'... none of that was said until January 2016."

    There was "nothing underhand" about how he was working with officials at the time.

  11. 'I kept quiet on Craword's involvement in RHI plan'published at 11:42 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Mr Cairns accepts that was he "should've been more open" about Dr Crawford's involvement in the strategy for the RHI scheme in the summer of 2015.

    "I think I should've been more forceful,and mentioned his name and said: 'Let's bring Andrew into the meetings'."

    Dr Andrew CrawfordImage source, RHI Inquiry

    Asked why he was avoiding mentioning Dr Crawford's name, he says there's "no good reason".

    He admits he kept Dr Crawford's involvement quiet from DETI officials for "no reason that I can give".

  12. 'I suppose our memories are different'published at 11:31 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Sir Patrick quotes from the evidence of the two advisers to demonstrate how they contradict each other.

    Dr Crawford's evidence to the inquiry is that "at no time did I suggest, ask for or push for the deadline to be pushed back".

    Burnig wood pellets

    But according to Mr Cairns it was Dr Crawford's view "from the outset" that the introduction of cost controls "should be delayed to the latest date the officials would recommend".

    "Both of those cannot be true," says Sir Patrick.

    "I suppose our memories are different," replies the witness.

  13. 'Only one adviser telling truth about cost controls delay'published at 11:28 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Dr Crawford's evidence to the inquiry is that he never tried to postpone the addition of cost controls to the RHI scheme.

    Mr Cairns says he "would certainly disagree" with his former colleague's view.

    Sir Patrick CoghlinImage source, RHI Inquiry

    Sir Patrick turns to the witness and tells him: "One of you is accurate or telling the truth about that - not both.

    "I'm concentrating for a moment, Mr Cairns, on the credibility of the two of you."

  14. 'Sorry for inconsistency about RHI delay instruction'published at 11:19 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Mr Cairns makes several references in his written statement to the inquiry to the plan to delay cost controls being DUP "policy".

    In one passage, he writes: "From the outset it was Andrew Crawford's view that the introduction of cost controls should be delayed to the latest date that officials would recommend."

    Tim CairnsImage source, RHI Inquiry

    He adds that that was the "instruction" that he passed on to the enterprise minister Mr Bell.

    He tells the inquiry now that his use of "instruction" is an "unfortunate word" and insists he didn't mean that Dr Crawford was commanding that cost controls should be delayed.

    The inquiry barrister and the chair press him on his use of the word and he apologises for what he describes as an "inconsistency" and "not [writing] that paragraph very well".

  15. 'What sort of DUP policy was relayed to officials?'published at 11:17 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Mr Cairns makes a distinction between two types of party policy, saying that there's high-level policy of the type drawn up to appear in election manifestos and another more mundane, lower-level type regarding day-to-day decisions.

    Sir Patrick says that in his testimony the witness seems to '"float" between two other concepts of policy.

    The RHI InquiryImage source, RHI Inquiry

    On the one hand are the discussions between himself, Mr Crawford and top DUP adviser Mr Johnston, which he communicated to officials.

    "The other end of that continuum is you receiving instruction from Mr Johnston and/or Mr Crawford as to what to say to officials," adds Sir Patrick.

  16. 'We were creating DUP policy to delay RHI cost controls'published at 10:55 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    It was a DUP policy to delay the introduction of cost controls to the RHI scheme, accepts Mr Cairns.

    But he says it was only him and Dr Crawford working on it and it "probably wouldn't be referenced back to anyone else" other than senior party adviser Mr Johnston.

    Sterling banknotesImage source, Getty Images

    He tells the inquiry that he was "interrogating" civil servants to establish the latest date that they would allow for the changes to come into effect.

    With the belief being that the RHI scheme was being funded by Westminster, it was felt that it was a "valid strategy" to delay the changes, allowing Northern Ireland to receive more money.

    "It's better to be spend in Belfast than Bristol," he says.

  17. 'Phone calls to discuss RHI appalling way of working'published at 10:45 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    Sir Patrick points out that Dr Crawford instructed Mr Cairns to call him to discuss details about the RHI scheme and says there is "no written record" even though "quite important things are being talked about".

    A mobile phoneImage source, PA

    The inquiry chairman asks if that would've happened often if "sensitive matters" were being discussed.

    The witness says it's "just a reflection of the informality" but he admits that it was an "appalling way of doing things".

  18. 'Crawford warned of massive spike in applications'published at 10:34 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    On 20 July, Mr Cairns received an email from Arlene Foster' adviser Dr Crawford (below), who had been his predecessor as the DUP adviser at DETI.

    Dr Crawford warned him that "the word on the street" was that cuts to RHI scheme subsidies were coming in October and "you are going to get a massive spike of applications before this date".

    Dr Andrew Crawford

    Mr Cairns says he passed the warning on to a senior DETI official.

    Dr Crawford thought funding for any overspend would come from Westminster but he cautioned Mr Cairns to check out the longer term possible consequences for the Northern Ireland budget.

  19. 'RHI strategy informed by farmers' union meeting'published at 10:32 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    The meeting between Mr Bell, Mr Cairns and the Ulster Farmers' Union "informed the strategy" for the RHI scheme, says the inquiry barrister Donal Lunny.

    He points to a line in Mr Cairns' written evidence to the inquiry, in which he says he "explored the possibility of extending the deadline to the latest possible date".

    Wood pellets

    Mr Cairns accepts that seeking to push the addition of cost controls back to the latest possible date was in the interests of farmers.

    He says it "didn't occur to me at the time" that the meeting could've informed the department's policy and that he should've intervened to make sure that didn't happen.

    Sir Patrick says that there was a "risk" in communicating with a "highly interested particular commercial group" about the scheme.

  20. 'Contact with renewable heat sector shocked me'published at 10:22 British Summer Time 12 September 2018

    We've heard during the inquiry sessions with DETI officials that some of them had engaged with some those in the renewable heat industry in the summer of 2015, informing them about the forthcoming changes to the subsidies on offer through the RHI scheme.

    Asked if he was aware of that communication, Mr Cairns says he was "only aware of that when it was in the press and I have to say it shocked me at the time", adding that he believes it was "inappropriate".

    Sir Patrick CoghlinImage source, RHI Inquiry

    But there were also two meetings between DETI and the Ulster Farmers' Union around July 2015, one of which was attended by Mr Cairns - during those, the union gave views about the addition of cost controls to the scheme.

    Inquiry chairman Sir Patrick Coghlin reminds the witness that farmers were major users of the scheme and that the meeting was "a clear interaction" between "outside stakeholders".