Education Committee briefed on departments' mental health and wellbeing policy
Details of historical institutional abuse compensation outlined to Executive Office Committee
The members shuffle their papers as Colin McGrath wraps up today's business.
We'll be back in the morning with the Health Committee, including a briefing from the chief medical officer on Coronavirus.
In the afternoon, we'll have live coverage of the PSNI chief constable's appearance at the Justice Committee.
It should make for interesting viewing.
In the meantime, keep warm and have a great evening.
Victims of institutional abuse "should be commended for their fortitude", says Sinn Féin's Pat Sheeran.
He asks if victims' advocate Brendan McAllister has found a way to overcome the problem of the £80,00 compensation cap.
Image source, NI AssemblyMr McAlliser says it may be that it could be addressed by an amendment to the Historical Institutional Abuse Act, which could possible be done by resolution of the assembly.
This would require cross-party support and the business case for the scheme would have to be reworked - that, however, would cause another delay to the introduction of the scheme.
"The victims groups are very anxious that their people have waited a long time," he says.
Sinn Féin's Fra McCann (below) says he agrees with the point by victims' advocate Brendan McAllister's point about people going into the compensation process and having to "relive difficulties and horrors".
The West Belfast MLA asks if Mr McAllister has had any input into the application form to ensure it's handled as "sensitively as possible".
Mr McAllister says the application form is at a "fairly advanced" stage and there will be both online and hard copies - he adds that victims groups are "very vigilant about this matter".
Image source, NI Assembly"They know their people very well," he says, and don’t want them "sitting in their homes" and being "intimidated by a computer screen of a form".
He says work is being done to ensure the form gathers the information needed but that it is also "victim sensitive".
Mr McAllister also says victims' groups intend to make "personal support workers" available when people are perceived to to be in need of support in the application process.
Next on the agenda - more on historical institutional abuse.
Brendan McAllister is the interim advocate for victims and survivors, external and he's before the Executive Office Committee to brief the members on his work.
Image source, NI AssemblyHe says victims have been meeting departmental officials and that will allow them to have a say on the design of compensation scheme.
He says he's been given legal advice that the proposed cap on payments at £80,000 is too low - his advice is that the cap should be raised to between £109,000 and £114,000.
The compensation scheme for victims of historical institutional abuse has been a "long time in the making", says Executive Office deputy secretary Mark Browne.
The scheme is due to open for applications at the end of next month, he tells the Executive Office Committee and it's estimated the cost could be anything between £25m and £60m, which will have to come from Northern Ireland's block grant.
Image source, PacemakerCommittee chair Colin McGrath asks about the time delay in getting a compensation system in place.
He wants to know why the promised commissioner for victims has yet to be appointed and says the process is "excruciating" for all of those involved.
Mr Browne defends his department's record on drafting draft legislation for the compensation scheme, telling the committee that the collapse of Stormont hindered the implementaiton of it.
Ultimately it was passed at Westminster last year - Mr Browne reminds the committee that it "went through [the Commons] in a matter of days" and the subsequent work to set the scheme up has been done rapidly.
It's not related to what the Executive Office civil servants are before the committee to discuss but the DUP's George Robinson is keen to know what's happening at the Ebrington scheme in Londonderry and Maze Long Kesh near Lisburn.
Mark Brown says that in terms of Maze Long Kesh ministers are looking at what the potential is for that site but there's no agreement on what to do.
"The Royal Agricultural Society has developed their facilities there, we have the air ambulance there and the Ulster Aviation Society."
Image source, Darron Mark"Up in Ebrington there have been very significant developments," he tells the committee.
"All of the buildings there either have a lease on them or have an expression for someone who wants to take the building forward," he explains and there is "significant potential" for the building of a four-star-hotel.
"The site is getting to the point now where it is going to blossom - I’m very encouraged," he says.
Recompense for victims of historical institutional abuse is raised by the DUP's Christopher Stalford, who wonders: "Where's the money coming from?"
The South Belfast MLA asks the Executive Office officials if they've been in contact with the institutions in which the abuse took place "to say that they need to be paying in".
Image source, NI AssemblyExecutive Office deputy secretary Mark Browne says it was set up as a publicly-funded scheme because that gives victims who come forward certainty they will be paid if abuse is proven.
But he adds that the department has been in touch with the institutions about matters such as records that could help with the verification of claims.
Mr Stalford says it's important that those who were more directly responsible "should have the full weight of public opinion put upon them" to make sure that they pay into the compensation pot.
The Alliance Party's Trevor Lunn (below) also questions estimate for the Troubles pension.
"This figure of £105m - it could be three or four times that. We don’t know but I don’t envy your job," he tells officials.
Executive Office deputy secretary Mark Browne makes the point that for planning purposes it is incumbent on the department to have some sort of estimate and refine it as more information becomes available.
Image source, NI Assembly"I can't help thinking these figures will inevitably rise," Mr Lunn says.
Mr Browne acknowledges "it’s very difficult to determine just how many [applications there] might be".
DUP MLA Christopher Stalford has an add-on point: "Given it was the secretary of state that made the commitment it should be the secretary of state that’s getting his chequebook out.
"It's one thing for the secretary of state to say 'We will do this' and then pass the ball to a devolved assembly - I think he has to be prevailed upon in that regard."
Pat Sheehan (below) of Sinn Féin asks about the cost of the payments scheme for victims of the Troubles.
It was revealed last month that a judge-led board will decide who will qualify for the scheme.
Executive Office deputy secretary Mark Browne says it's "tricky" to estimate how many people will come forward because the payments can be made on physical or psychological damage.
He says t department has a reasonable estimation of how many people who have suffered physical disability but "it's less clear around psychological damage".
Image source, NI AssemblyThe official says the broad estimation of costs is somewhere in the region of just over £100m but Mr Sheehan wants to know how the department calculated that figure - he asks Mr Browne if he "just plucked the £100m out of the air?"
Executive Office official Gareth Johnston says the department got some information from the Victims and Survivors Service about the numbers of victims.
Mr Sheehan asks: "Are you familiar with the PSNI hearing loss claims? Do you know how much that cost?"
Mr Johnston says it was somewhere between £150m and £180m and Mr Sheehan tells him he "can't imagine" the Troubles pension will cost any less.
"So I think you should up your figure in regard to this," he adds.
Mark Browne gets into budget estimates to take account of additional new responsibilities that the Executive Office (TEO) has.
He says the ambit has been updated to "take account of the fact that TEO is responsible for preparing and implementing a Troubles victims' payments scheme and actions related to the historical institutional abuse redress board and the establishment of a commissioner for survivors for institutional childhood abuse".
The ambit has to be updated to ensure the department has authority to spend in those areas.
Image source, NI AssemblyHe tells members: "There’s an increase of some £537.4m to our net resource requirement and an increase of £9.7m on the cash requirement."
The senior official says the Troubles victims' payment scheme and the historical institutional abuse compensation scheme have a "high degree of uncertainty as to what the actual cost will be".
He explains that it is not known how many victims there are and how victims may come forward or what the extent of payments will be to individual victims.
"From our perspective we would make the point that we are including these in our estimates but any resource to fund this will have to come centrally from the block grant because our budget couldn’t possibly manage to stretch to cover those costs."
First on the agenda is a briefing from departmental officials about the Together: Building a United Community strategy the finances relating to it.
But there's a problem - Executive Office Committee chair Colin McGrath (below) notes with displeasure that the officials did not provided one of the briefing documents within the appointed timeframe.
There's an apology from Mark Browne - the deputy permanent secretary in the Executive Office - but Mr McGrath tells him the committee won't be discussing the paper today because of the late submission.
Image source, NI AssemblyThe cut-off date for providing papers is the previous Thursday at midday and receiving them "an hour and a half before before a committee meeting is not acceptable", adds the chair.
Mr McGrath also requests a more detailed paper on the budget - more than the three-and-a-half pages the committee has been given.
He adds that the department declined to provide some material to the committee because officials determined that it "wasn't appropriate".
"I think we'll decide as a committee what is appropriate to be briefed on," says the SDLP MLA.
Northern Ireland Assembly
Image source, NI AssemblyWe're back and bringing you coverage from the Executive Office Committee - it'll receive three briefings this afternoon.
The first is on the Executive Office's Together: Building a United Community strategy, known as TBuc.
Image source, NI AssemblyAfter that it'll be on to two issues relating to historical institutional abuse.
Committee chair Colin McGrath opens the proceedings.
Chris Lyttle draws the public part of today's meeting to an end - the Education Committee is going into closed session for a briefing from an assembly researcher.
We're going to get some lunch now but we'll be back at 14:00 with live coverage of the Executive Office Committee - it's having two briefings on historical institutional abuse and one on improving community relations.
See you then.
The UUP's Robbie Butler has some thoughts on desserts: "It's not a criticism but I was disappointed to hear that you’re thinking of taking desserts down two a week," he says to a low chuckle in the room.
"Jam roly-poly and custard - they're things I didn't get at home."
He says children who receive free school meals are from "socially deprived backgrounds" and he's concerned that "we do not use a stick to thrash out something else - a problem that we have with obesity and healthy lifestyles that we actually take away some of the good free school meals do".
"It is the single most important meal that some children get," he adds.
Image source, GettyHe says that while he doesn't know how it's viewed today there had been a "stigma" attached to free school meals.
Education official Margaret Rose McNaughton says there's "a real challenge to make school meals so that no-one is treated any differently" and every child has the same choice.
Chair Chris Lyttle jumps in on this: "Is anyone treated differently?" he asks. Mr Butler says they "used to be".
Sinn Féin's Karen Mullan says: "It’s a payment system and the Education Authority have looked at - my son's was a fingerprint or thumb but still in some schools there’s a ticketing system."
Mr Lyttle says work should be done urgently to ensure there is no difference.
Ms Mullan says they are looking at rolling out one system and an update will be needed on it.
Standards on school meals state that children should receive at least two portions of vegetables and a portion of fruit every day, says education department official Margaret Rose McNaughton.
And she tells the committee that as part of the consultation on nutritional standards in schools "we do really want to get a broad view from the young people".
Image source, PA MediaDaniel McCrossan, the SDLP MLA, says he has fond memories of school dinners and he also recalls children - possibly including himself - smuggling in "quite a selection of sweets and treats" in order to "sell them to everyone else"!
Mr McCrossan says breaktimes appear to be where the issue of nutrition needs closest examination.
More than 185,000 school meals are provided every day, the committee is told, but the current standard was developed more than 12 years ago.
The DE’s Margaret Rose McNaughton outlines new proposals.
Initial proposals put forward by a working group tasked to consider the Eat Well guide included:
The DE liaised with various partners to get their views.
They were supportive of the drinks and desserts suggestions, Ms McNaughton says.
Image source, iStockBut they were concerned the restrictions might have a detrimental effect on the uptake of school meals.
One negative outcome could see kids going off site to fast food outlets, members are told.
“The last thing we wanted to do was reduce the number of school meals being taken,” says Ms McNaughton.
The working group's recommendation, including increasing vegetables and reducing the frequency of desserts to twice a week as well as providing more fruit and dairy-based desserts is estimated to add on 5p to 7p per meal.
Ms McNaughton says anecdotally the DE is aware that when the first standards were introduced in 2007 any price increase can result in a drop in uptake.
It's approaching lunchtime so it seems appropriate that food is on the agenda now.
The Education Committee is hearing from officials about school dinners. The officials briefing the MLAs are:
The SDLP's Justin McNulty wants to know more about the Online Safety Strategy that's being drawn up by Stormont departments.
The Newry and Armagh MLA concerned that who he describes as the "foremost expert in that area" - Wayne Denner - has not been consulted about it.
Image source, PA Media"He's a person who's working on the ground in the schools, in the communities and this person - who has the most expertise in that area in the north - has not been involved in informing that strategy."
Department of Education official Angela Kane informs Mr McNulty that a public consultation about the strategy was open for eight weeks last year, meaning anyone could have their say on it.
There was a good response to that consultation, she adds, and the draft strategy is "nearly finished".
There's been plenty of talk by the civil servants about putting in place a "whole school, whole child approach" to mental health services within the education system.
But what does that actually mean in practical terms, asks the DUP's Robin Newton (below).
Image source, NI AssemblyDepartment of Education official Ricky Irwin tries to sum it up by explaining that the "overall ethos of the school is one of a supportive culture".
"It's about trying to embed that right across the school sector," he adds.
Mr Newton doesn't think that's an answer to his question, telling Mr Irwin: "Still not sure that I know what actually happens when the child walks in having not had a breakfast and they're arriving on such a morning as this."