Summary

  • Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss have been answering questions from Tory party members at a hustings event in Cardiff

  • They were grilled on topics including tax and how they would tackle the cost-of-living crisis

  • Truss said she had a bold plan to increase economic growth, first by ditching all EU laws still in place by 2023

  • She also insisted her proposal to link public sector pay to local living costs, scrapped shortly after it was announced, was "misinterpreted" by "the media"

  • Sunak welcomed her U-turn, saying it would have meant "almost half a million workers in Wales getting a pay cut"

  • He also stressed that he was the better candidate to "smash" Labour's Sir Keir Starmer, saying only he could win the Tories a fifth general election

  • Meanwhile, in a boost for Truss, former health secretary Sajid Javid threw his support behind her

  1. We're wrapping up our live coveragepublished at 22:06 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    That's it for this evening, thanks for joining us.

    Tomorrow night at 8pm both candidates will go head-to-head in a special programme for Sky News – join us for full coverage of that.

    Meanwhile, the next hustings will take place in Eastbourne on Friday.

    Our coverage was brought to you by Adam Durbin, Dulcie Lee, James FitzGerald, Nathan Williams and Chris Giles.

  2. What's been happening?published at 21:59 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    The finalists in the Tory leadership contest, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, have been answering questions from Tory members in Cardiff.

    They were grilled on topics including their tax plans and how to tackle the cost-of-living crisis.

    Here’s a quick look back at some of what was said.

    Liz Truss speaks at Wednesday's hustingsImage source, PA Wire

    Liz Truss

    • Insisted that her proposal to link public sector pay to local living costs - scrapped just hours after it was announced - was "misinterpreted" by "the media"
    • Said she would prioritise spending on social care above the NHS, because issues in the care sector were impacting on the health service
    • Pledged to get rid of all EU laws still in place by the end of 2023
    Rishi Sunak speaks at Wednesday's hustingsImage source, PA Wire

    Rishi Sunak

    • Repeatedly stressed that he was the better candidate to "smash" Labour's Sir Keir Starmer, saying only he could win the Tories a fifth general election
    • Denies he could have been clearer on his tax plans, saying he had been "consistent, clear and honest"
    • Hinted he would consider abolishing inheritance tax - saying this was "not what he set out a plan to do", but was something he could look at.

    What happened earlier?

    • Ahead of the hustings, former Health Secretary Sajid Javid gave his backing to Liz Truss in the contest.
    • Earlier in the day, two polls from YouGov and ConservativeHome both suggested Truss had a dominant lead over Sunak.
  3. A PM Truss would have to build relations with first ministerspublished at 21:56 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Rajdeep Sandhu
    Westminster correspondent

    If Liz Truss becomes prime minister she will have to build relations with the first ministers of Wales and Scotland. She was asked if she would ignore them, after previously saying she's would ignore Nicola Sturgeon.

    Her claim that the "entire resources of the Scottish government are being used to run essentially an independence campaign" will be challenge by those in the SNP. So will the claim that Scottish government wasn't delivering for people.

    It will do nothing to reduce tensions between the two, but of course her focus at the moment is the Conservative membership.

  4. Truss sets crosshairs on Welsh FM following attack on Sturgeonpublished at 21:49 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Liz Truss speaks during Wednesday's hustings event in CardiffImage source, Getty Images

    Liz Truss has described Wales' First Minister Mark Drakeford as a "low-energy version of Jeremy Corbyn" days after criticising Scottish leader Nicola Sturgeon.

    She called Sturgeon "an attention seeker" who is "best ignored" during Monday's hustings in Exeter.

    Truss lambasted Drakeford for his "negativity" over a 2019 decision to drop the M4 relief road.

    There was no immediate response from Drakeford or Welsh Labour to Truss's comments.

    Earlier in the week, Scotland's Deputy First Minister John Swinney described Truss's attack on Sturgeon as "completely and utterly unacceptable".

  5. What did the candidates have to say about devolution?published at 21:41 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    David Deans
    BBC Wales politics reporter

    If your question was whether Rishi Sunak will devolve more powers to the Welsh Parliament as prime minister, it seems clear he will not.

    He told Tory members that “onward devolution” had not improved things in health and education, and intimated that he would get more involved in Welsh affairs.

    Would he intervene in health and education? There was nothing concrete – but he said he would be an “activist” prime minister – the suggestion was there.

    Sunak walked into the All Nations Centre with what sounded like a plan to win over sceptical Welsh Tory voters, many of whom are often assumed to be devo-sceptics. But there was no arms race on the subject with front runner Liz Truss.

    She had little to say when it came to the constitution of Wales - the nearest she got to the subject was a comment that she said it was right that the Welsh government run the NHS – which it has since 1999 and is only interesting because of the comments of her rival.

  6. Tory flashpoints the next PM may facepublished at 21:22 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Nick Eardley
    Political correspondent

    Downing Street

    Let's take a closer look at the candidates' stance on policies which often split opinion among Conservative Party members - who, of course, are key to winning this contest.

    Housing targets - The manifesto promised 300,000 new homes every year by the middle of the decade. Both candidates would abandon the target.

    New grammar schools - Opening new grammar schools in England is banned - but current ones can be expanded. Both candidates support the selective schools. Sunak backs expanding existing ones. Truss hasn't explicitly said she’d change the law to allow new grammars - but hinted at it.

    Net migration targets - For years, the government wanted to get yearly net migration under 100,000. That target was dropped in the 2019 manifesto and neither candidate has suggested they would bring it back.

    Third Heathrow runway - Neither candidate would give us a yes or no answer.

    Read more - from stop and search to banning foie gras - here.

  7. Sunak's change of heart on onshore wind?published at 21:09 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Rajdeep Sandhu
    Westminster correspondent

    Rishi Sunak seems to have had a change of heart on his onshore wind policy.

    The government was keen to allow for more onshore wind where local communities were happy with it.

    But Rishi Sunak was against that idea. He said he would scrap plans to relax a ban on onshore wind.

    Tonight when asked if he would be "bold" enough to scrap the embargo of onshore wind in England. He replied, "Yes in a nutshell... we are open to that where we can do it with local communities."

    That would revert back to the current government policy.

    But it seems to be the opposite of what he has said before.

  8. 'We cannot let green issues be owned by the left'published at 20:59 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    "I was an environmentalist before it was fashionable," says Liz Truss, when she's asked about her green credentials.

    She says she was campaigning to protect the ozone layer in the 90s, adding: "We cannot let green issues be owned by the left".

    Truss says she wants to hit the net zero target - that's the government's pledge to balance the greenhouse gases being emitted into the atmosphere with those which are being removed - by 2050.

    But she wants a temporary moratorium on the green levy and wants use more gas in the short term.

  9. Truss to prioritise social care spending ahead of NHSpublished at 20:54 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Truss is asked how she would continue to fund social care, given that she has pledged to reverse a rise in national insurance that was announced by her government in April.

    She insists she is "still committed" to funding for both social care and the NHS.

    But the money would come from "general taxation", Truss explains.

    She adds that she would prioritise social care ahead of the NHS, because "councils are struggling". She claims issues with social care are having a knock-on effect, by keeping people stuck in NHS hospital beds.

  10. Leadership debates 'aired our dirty linen in public'published at 20:51 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Liz Truss speaking at the All Nations Centre in CardiffImage source, PA Media

    This campaign has seen mudslinging and "patronising mansplaining", one Tory member says, asking Truss what she'll do to repair the damage before the next election.

    Truss says she agrees that there have been some "unfortunate occurrences".

    She says she wouldn't have so many debates again: "I think it's better if we're talking to each other within the Conservative Party, rather than airing our dirty linen in public."

    As prime minister, she says she'd appoint trusted and competent people who don't spend their time "leaking and briefing", which she says will help the party win against Labour.

  11. Quickfire questions: Why would you beat Keir Starmer?published at 20:48 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Truss also gets the quickfire treatment, and her answer to how her friends would describe her is "determined, loyal and fun".

    On what makes her nervous, she opts for a topical reference and says when the Lionesses were 2-1 with 10 minutes to go in extra time before their recent Euro 2022 win. She also says she "doesn't like jumping over large caverns and things like that".

    Asked why she would be a better candidate than Sir Keir Starmer at the next general election, Truss says recent evidence shows she would be more popular than the Labour leader.

    She adds that the reality is the Tories must deliver on their 2019 manifesto and says she is someone who is trusted and who delivers.

  12. Truss professes love for Shirley Bassey's Bond themepublished at 20:43 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    We've just heard that one of Liz Truss's favourite songs is the theme from the 1964 James Bond film Goldfinger, sung by Dame Shirley Bassey.

    It's in reply to a question from host Hannah Vaughan Jones, who wonders what Wales means to Truss.

    The answer turns out to be lamb and beef, childhood holidays and the music of Dame Shirley.

    Following another exchange with Vaughan Jones, she jokes: "I thought you were going to ask me to sing Goldfinger [...] some people have heard it."

    Shirley BasseyImage source, Getty Images
  13. Would you give more money to Wales?published at 20:40 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Liz TrussImage source, Reuters

    Liz Truss is asked if she would increase the slice of the UK government's money which is given to Wales.

    She doesn't give a direct answer. When pushed, she says spending "automatically follows" from the Barnet formula, which is used to calculate how much money the devolved nations receive from the UK government.

    But she doesn't say whether she'd tweak the formula.

  14. Truss insists regional pay policy was misinterpreted by mediapublished at 20:38 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Unsurprisingly, the first question to Liz Truss is about her swiftly scrapped plans for regional pay boards for public servants.

    Asked if it was actually a misrepresented policy, she says it was misinterpreted by the media and was never intended to apply to nurses, doctors and teachers.

    Truss adds she wanted to clear up the policy right away and that they are not going ahead with it.

    Pressed on where the predicted £8.8bn savings her campaign said it would save will come from instead, Truss says its "not part of my central costings" to pay for her planned £30bn of tax cuts.

    She says her reversal of the NI rise, keeping corporation tax low and a temporary moratorium on green energy levies will be paid for from general taxation.

    "We'll still be able to get the debt falling within three years," she adds.

    Truss says the policy in question was a much longer term plan, but then repeats it isn't going ahead anyway.

    She concludes that she is someone "when things are misinterpreted, when mistakes are made I'm honest about that".

  15. Get opinions of non-Tories before voting, Sunak urgespublished at 20:33 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Rishi's Q&A session concludes with the former chancellor promising he can "smash" Labour's Sir Keir Starmer at the next general election if the Tory faithful make him their leader.

    His questioner had pointed out that Sir Keir appears to be neck-and-neck with Sunak according to national polling - but that Truss is consistently ahead of Sunak in polls of Tory members.

    "Thank you - I think - for highlighting the stats," says Sunak.

    He suggests Tory members should seek the opinions of others in their community before voting in the leadership contest.

    Only Tory members can vote in the leadership contest.

    It's important that the party "provide[s] a leader who can lead the entire country," he explains.

  16. How will you boost renewable energy?published at 20:27 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Sunak is asked how he will boost renewable energy – and whether he'll be "bold" enough to scrap the de facto ban on new on-shore wind turbines.

    "Yes, in a nutshell," he replies.

    Sunak says he's already said he's open to that where it can be done with local communities. He admits that it's proven difficult, but with different economic incentives, he says it might be possible to get it to work.

    The same goes for fracking, he says.

    In the short term, he says the government needs to help people insulate their homes better, which will also improve the country's energy security.

  17. How would you cut the size of the state?published at 20:23 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Sunak is also asked how he would cut the size of the civil service and ensure civil servants "return to their desks"

    He says one of his final acts as chancellor was to start a process asking departments to come back with a plan to cut the number of civil servants by a "significant amount" and reduce the size of government.

    Sunak adds the previous coalition government deserves credit for being "tough on this", but says subsequent governments "four of five years ago slightly took our foot off the gas and the numbers have creeped up".

    He says this can be achieved by "reforming the public services more generally" to reduce the size of the state and tax burden.

    Sunak concludes civil service cuts alone will not deliver tax cuts and that the government needs to "think boldly and differently across the board" in finding savings.

    He also argues that "radical thinking" about reforming the NHS is key to making savings and improving public services generally.

  18. Sunak challenged to praise Trusspublished at 20:20 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    A curveball for Rishi Sunak, who’s asked by an audience member to say why he thinks a Tory member should vote not for him – but for Liz Truss.

    Sunak greets the challenge with a chuckle – saying the two are members of the same “family” who share values.

    He says he’s confident his leadership rival will "also give her all" at beating Labour in a general election.

    "If you think she’s the best person, so be it," he says.

  19. I was instrumental in weakening Russia - Sunakpublished at 20:17 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    SuankImage source, PA Media

    We've got our first audience question – and Rishi Sunak is asked about the war in Ukraine.

    Two things need to be done, Sunak says: strengthen Ukraine and weaken Russia.

    And he says he's played an "instrumental part" in weakening Russia.

    "If you think about how we're attacking Russia at the moment – it's not with our direct arms, it's not through diplomacy, it's through economic sanctions," he says.

    The former chancellor adds that he won't give an "arbitrary target" for defence spending, but promises to invest "whatever it takes to keep all of you and everyone else in our country safe".

  20. Quickfire round: How would your friends describe you?published at 20:15 British Summer Time 3 August 2022

    Quickfire questions for Sunak now, who is asked first how his friends would describe him in three words?

    "Loyal, honest and hardworking", is the answer.

    On what makes him nervous, after some appropriately nervous laughter he concludes it is his "wife and two kids" - an answer which may not be best received at home in Yorkshire.

    His third question is: Why should people like him?

    To which Sunak replies that people make their own judgements based on his record as chancellor in the last few years.