Summary

  • In his first TV interview of the new year, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is quizzed by Laura Kuenssberg on nurses' pay and the NHS

  • The PM says he will talk to the Royal College of Nursing about pay - but does not commit to increasing wages now to end their strike

  • Sunak refuses to say, when questioned, whether or not he uses a private GP

  • Responding for Labour is shadow health secretary Wes Streeting

  • On the panel is RCN general secretary Pat Cullen, hospital boss Prof Clive Kay and former Bank of England chief economist Andy Haldane

  1. Goodbye and thank you for joining us this Sundaypublished at 11:17 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    That's it for today's live coverage of Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg - next week it will be Labour leader Keir Starmer's turn to face the questions.

    Today, we heard from the PM Rishi Sunak, who says the NHS is one of his top priorities, and we got the thoughts of shadow health secretary Wes Streeting.

    Our panel from the health sector included Clive Kay, chief executive of King’s College Hospital in south London, Pat Cullen, general secretary of the Royal College of Nursing, and Andy Haldane, the former chief economist at the Bank of England and now CEO of the Royal Society of Arts.

    Sam Mendes spoke to Laura about his new film Empire of Light, which has been called a love letter to the cinema.

    The live page was written by Anna Boyd and Jen Meierhans. It was edited by Rob Corp and Jeremy Gahagan.

  2. Get ready for a political row over whether Sunak pays for a private GPpublished at 11:10 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Laura Kuenssberg
    Presenter, Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg

    Laura Kuenssberg with Rishi Sunak

    We chose to focus in our interview with the prime minister on the NHS because right now, it's one of his biggest problems.

    There was an element of "crisis, what crisis?" despite what's happening right now in A&Es around the country being considered that serious by many in the health sector. Rishi Sunak was obviously reluctant to use that word.

    And he was adamant he was not going to divulge whether he pays for healthcare.

    Whether or not you think that's an issue, there is likely to be a political row about it, not least because he does not want to give detail.

    One former minister told me: "His lack of transparency shows he thinks going private is a problem. It is - he's taking decisions on public spend that affect a version of 'the public' that he's not willing to be part of."

    It was though noteworthy that he did signal a willingness to talk to nurses about this year's pay.

    He's a million miles away from telling nurses he'll open the cheque book but it was a clear softening of the fraught tone of the public conversation of the last few weeks.

    Pat Cullen, the leader of the nurses' union told us on the show she thought it was a "chink of light".

  3. Is the PM right about Albanian migrants?published at 11:00 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Reality Check

    Rishi Sunak said: “Albania accounted for a third almost of illegal migrant arrivals last year… Other European countries return illegal migrants to Albania, we were not doing that sufficiently.”

    In the first nine months of 2022, 11,241 Albanian migrants crossed the English Channel – nearly a third of the total number of arrivals at that point.

    The Nationality and Borders Act passed last year made it illegal for migrants to knowingly enter the UK without a visa or special permission.

    Channel crossings graphicImage source, .

    In the 12 months to September 2022, 85% of Albanians who arrived by small boats - 7,219 people - submitted asylum applications.

    A decision has not been reached on the vast majority of these, but in general, 53% of claims by Albanians, external are accepted.

    Up until September 2022, France processed more asylum applications from Albanians than the UK, but rejected most of them.

    Germany and Greece were next, followed by the UK, which granted asylum at a significantly higher rate than the others except for the Republic of Ireland.

    Showing which countries are granting asylum to AlbaniansImage source, .
  4. WATCH: Sam Mendes says gender-neutral Oscars is inevitablepublished at 10:56 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Last year, The Crown star Emma Corrin called for gender-neutral categories at major film awards.

    Director Sam Mendes has told the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg he has "total sympathy" with the idea.

  5. How is the NHS doing in your area?published at 10:51 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is under pressure to tackle the severe challenges facing the NHS this winter.

    Hospitals are struggling with a difficult flu season, staff shortages and backlogs due to Covid.

    You can see what is happening in your area by using our NHS tracker.

  6. Is the PM right about waiting times for NHS treatment?published at 10:38 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Reality Check

    Pressed on NHS waiting lists, Rishi Sunak said: “I’m confident that in a few months’ time we will have practically eliminated those people who are waiting a year and a half for their treatment.”

    The prime minister is correct that the number of people waiting long periods is coming down.

    In August 2022, NHS England, external announced that fewer than 200 people were waiting two years for treatment, down from 22,500 people at the start of 2022. This number excludes complex cases as well as people who chose to defer treatment.

    The government has committed to a plan to eliminate 18-month waits by April 2023. In November 2022, NHS England reported, external that the number of people on this list had fallen by 60%.

    The government has a further target, external to reduce the year-long waiting list by March 2025. As of October 2022, there were nearly 411,000 people waiting over a year for treatment, external.

    However, data compiled by the British Medical Association (BMA), external shows the total number of people waiting for specialist NHS treatment in England has increased every month since January 2022. It currently stands at a record number of 7.21 million people as of October 2022.

  7. What did we learn from Rishi Sunak's first major interview of 2023?published at 10:29 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    • Sunak says the NHS does not recognise figures from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine suggesting some 300 people a week have died due to failings in A&E
    • He does admit there are "unacceptable delays" in ambulances and A&E but a small number of trusts are responsible for more than half of these
    • He says he is confident that within a few months treatment waiting lists would be under 18 months
    • He says the government has always been open to talks with nurses and unions over pay but does not clarify if a rise in this financial year is on the table
    • We still don't know whether Sunak has ever been registered with a private GP
    • Sunak says inflation will not come down automatically but because of the plans the government has put in place and until it does they can't help nurses or anyone else
    • New laws will be passed early this year to stop migrants crossing the English Channel in small boats and they should apply to everyone trying to enter the UK illegally, he says
  8. I want 47,000 nursing vacancies to be filled - Cullenpublished at 10:23 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Pat Cullen, Chief Executive, Royal College of Nursing

    Laura Kuenssberg asks Pat Cullen, chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, for her final thoughts.

    Cullen says she'll feel optimistic going forward if 47,000 nursing vacancies get filled and nurses get a "decent" salary.

  9. Regeneration is needed across UK - Haldanepublished at 10:17 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Andy Haldane, Chief Executive, Royal Society of Arts

    Referring to Sam Mendes's new film Empire of Light which was filmed in Margate, Andy Haldane, chief executive of the Royal Society of Arts, calls for regeneration in towns across the country.

  10. We need radical solutions on NHS - Kaypublished at 10:11 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Professor Clive Kay, Chief Executive of King's College Hospital

    Professor Clive Kay, chief executive of King's College Hospital, reacts to shadow health secretary Wes Streeting's comments about health inequalities, which he agrees have been exposed by Covid and need to be addressed.

    He agrees that radical solutions are required and says: "We can't go for quick-fix or sticking plasters, we need sustained, sustainable radical solutions."

  11. Labour will consult on phasing out cigarette salespublished at 10:08 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    In a final couple of questions, Kuenssberg asks Streeting if junior doctors should get a 30% pay rise.

    He says he understands the financial pressures on them but he couldn't honestly say if he was the health secretary that he would be able to deliver that.

    She asks if buying cigarettes should be outlawed.

    Streeting says Labour will consult on phasing out the sale of cigarettes over time.

  12. Is giving vaccinations money for old rope?published at 10:06 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Kuenssberg asks Streeting about his previous statement that GPs giving vaccinations is money for old rope.

    He says: "The vaccination programme is absolutely critical to our country."

    He adds: "I'm not trying to insult a profession that is slogging their guts out and is incredibly burnt out."

    But he does want more GPs, more focus and investment and over a 10-year plan shift the focus of healthcare out of hospital and into the community to allow faster access to treatment and better value for money.

  13. We would phase out GPs running practices as businesses - Streetingpublished at 10:01 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Streeting says he wants to see people treated as fast as possible and if there is spare capacity in the private sector they will use it.

    I would absolutely use the private sector in the short-term to get the NHS waiting lists down free at the point of use, he says.

    We are focused on fixing the NHS, getting people access to treatment as fast as possible, he adds.

    Kuenssberg asks him about his plan to make GPs salaried members of NHS staff instead of running practices as businesses. He says there is already a trend in GPs moving towards this way of working.

    Asked if he would get rid of GP practices being run by doctors, he says: "We are looking to phase that out, we are going to be consulting on that this year."

  14. I do not use private healthcare - Streetingpublished at 09:56 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Wes Streeting speaks with Laura Kuenssberg

    We've heard what the PM has to say and next up, responding for Labour, is the party’s shadow health secretary Wes Streeting.

    Kuenssberg asks him if he uses private healthcare. He says "no" and the PM's answer to the same question showed him to be someone who did not understand the biggest crisis in the NHS history.

    Asked if there's anything wrong with paying for private healthcare, he says it has created a two-tier system, but it's a free country and people can make that choice.

    He says he wants to make sure people have access to great healthcare whether they can afford it or not.

  15. WATCH: The NHS is a top priority for me - Rishi Sunakpublished at 09:52 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Prime Minister Rishi Sunak tells Laura Kuenssberg he understands that the NHS is under immense pressure and that fixing it is a top priority for him.

  16. Sam Mendes on stigma of mental illnesspublished at 09:49 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Olivia ColmanImage source, Empire of Light/Searchlight Pictures
    Image caption,

    Olivia Colman stars in Mendes' latest film

    We're hearing now from film and theatre director Sir Sam Mendes.

    He says his new film Empire of Light hopes to dramatise "what it is to live through bipolar and manic depression rather than explain it".

    The film sees Hilary (Olivia Colman) play a cinema manager in a British seaside town, struggling with her mental health.

    Mendes says there is stil a stigma surounding mental illness and that people don't ask after your health in the same way as they might if you had cancer treatment, for example.

    Empire of Light is in cinemas from 9 January

  17. Nurses are not being listened to, says RCN's Cullenpublished at 09:47 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    The RCN's Pat Cullen says the strikes were the hardest thing she has had to do in her 40 years of nursing.

    But she says nurses are getting poorer, they cannot manage to survive on the wages government are giving them, and they are not being listened to, so something has to give.

    The only way it appears the government will listen to the people holding the health service together is if they use their voice standing at the picket lines, she says.

    Prof Clive Kay, who runs King's College Hospital in south London, says nurses are impacted by the cost of living crisis so "we should reward them" and these kinds of disputes are only resolved by getting around the table and we need to do that sooner rather than later.

  18. This will be the year inflation falls - economistpublished at 09:45 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Giving his thoughts on Sunak's plans for the economy, former Bank of England chief economist Andy Haldane says "as things stand it is not really a growth programme at all".

    He says there were hints of it in the PM's speech earlier in the week but it is still falling short.

    This is the year where optimism and innovation will only happen if there's a sense of a brighter tomorrow, he says.

    Inflation has peaked in headline terms so it will fall this year but the labour market is very tight with lots of unfilled vacancies which put pressure on wages.

    He says inflation will remain above the Bank's 2% target for a little while yet.

  19. No quick fix for the NHS - hospital bosspublished at 09:41 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Chief executive of King’s College Hospital in south London Professor Clive Kay says he doesn't think he heard the PM quite grasp the fact this is a really difficult situation.

    He says it's not a one-off or a quick fix there's going to need quite a time to fix this and we need some realistic conversations about the situation, how difficult it is and what the public can expect.

    "The suggestion that there's going to be a quick fix is not a reality," he says.

  20. PM must talk about pay for 2022/23, says nurses' union bosspublished at 09:39 Greenwich Mean Time 8 January 2023

    Pat Cullen

    We are now hearing what the Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg panellists think about what they've heard in the PM's first TV interview of the year.

    Royal College of Nursing general secretary Pat Cullen says she heard a chink of optimism and a little shift in what the PM was saying but general secretaries will not be at tomorrow's meeting between the government and unions at No 10.

    It's not about negotiations, nurses' pay or pay for 22/23 and these talks will not avert the strike action planned for 10 days' time.

    She says the PM talked about coming to the table, "that's a move for me" but it must be about pay for 22/23, she says.