Summary

  • This week's guests were Foreign Secretary James Cleverly and Labour's shadow chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster Pat McFadden

  • Cleverly said it was very difficult to get aid to Libya, where thousands have died after a huge flood

  • And he said the entertainment industry had questions to answer after Russell Brand was accused of sexual assaults - allegations Brand denies

  • McFadden, meanwhile, told Laura Kuenssberg that Labour "won't re-run the Brexit argument"

  • Quizzed on Labour's small boat plans, McFadden said "it's not about numbers" and that asylum claims should be assessed individually

  • Kuenssberg also spoke to Ian Russell, whose daughter Molly died in 2017, about his campaigning to protect children online

  • This week's panel included Scottish novelist Irvine Welsh, columnist Jane Moore and social activist Nimco Ali

  1. Thank you for joining uspublished at 11:46 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Jamie Whitehead
    Live reporter

    We're now closing our live coverage of Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg. Thank you for joining us.

    • Foreign Secretary James Cleverly said that the entertainment industry has questions to answer, following recent allegations against Russell Brand- which Brand denies - read what he had to say here, and find out more about the allegations.
    • Cleverly also discussed the recent allegations against a parliamentary researcher who has been accused of spying for China. See what he had to say.
    • And Labour's immigration policy was a topic of debate on the programme. Find out more about their new deal to clamp down on illegal gangs here.

    Today's coverage was edited by Jamie Whitehead and Rob Corp, and the writers were Ece Goksedef and Ali Abbas Ahmadi.

    Have a great Sunday!

  2. Expect MPs to push for answers from our big institutionspublished at 11:39 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Laura Kuenssberg
    Presenter, Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg

    The slew of grim allegations may well have taken politicians, like the rest of us, by surprise.

    But how could, or should they respond?

    Like the revelations about Philip Schofield, politicians don’t want to dive into speculation about individuals, but they do suggest there may be questions for the wider entertainment industry.

    Like the foreign secretary this morning, expect MPs to push for answers from our big institutions who were involved in Brand’s career on those crucial next questions - who knew what, and when?

  3. Cleverly refuses to say if he raised Parliament spy claim with Chinapublished at 11:32 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    James Cleverly speaking to Laura Kuenssberg

    James Cleverly refused to say whether he spoke to the Chinese government about a researcher in Parliament who was arrested on suspicion of spying for China.

    Cleverly said both he and the PM had spoken to Chinese leaders about "interference in our democracy".

    But, asked if he raised the allegations with Beijing, he said he would not comment on "security related matters".

    The researcher has said he is "completely innocent".

    Read more here.

  4. Will Labour commit to HS2 being built in full?published at 11:26 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Pat McFadden on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg

    On the programme, Pat McFadden was asked about what might be in the Labour manifesto. Here’s what he said about HS2:

    First of all, he declined to commit to it being built in full.

    "We want to see the railway being built, it looks as though the government is now putting a question mark over this, there may be revised costs to that," he said.

    He also mentioned that the price tag that was put on it in 2019 was £30 billion. But it has not been raised since, and Cleverly added that there has been "quite a lot of inflation since then".

    Asked to confirm if Labour would not commit to completing the full original route of HS2, he said: "I want to see what this costs and we'll make those decisions when it comes to the manifesto."

  5. Watch: Nothing has changed after 20 years - Ian Russellpublished at 10:58 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Online safety campaigner Ian Russell tells Laura about the need for change in social media companies, as they have been run "from the dorms to the board rooms".

    Media caption,

    Nothing has changed after 20 years - Ian Russell

  6. Watch: Labour will not re-run Brexit argument - McFaddenpublished at 10:45 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Media caption,

    Labour will not re-run Brexit argument - Pat McFadden

  7. Watch: Questions for entertainment industry after Brand allegations, Cleverly sayspublished at 10:35 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Foreign Secretary James Cleverly said there were questions for the entertainment industry to answer following the allegations made against Russel Brand yesterday.

    Brand has denied the allegations against him, which include rape and sexual assaults.

    Here's what Cleverly had to say:

    Media caption,

    Questions for the industry - James Cleverly on Brand

  8. Here's a look back at the programmepublished at 10:28 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Laura Kuenssberg speaking with Pat McFadden

    Phew, that went fast! Here's a look back at the conversations on this episode of Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg.

    • Foreign Secretary James Cleverly said that the entertainment industry had questions to answer after the Russel Brand allegations, and said he cannot comment on Chinese spy allegations in Parliament because of its sensitive nature
    • Ian Russell, a campaigner for better protection online says that the new Online Safety Bill must protect children online - otherwise it will have failed, and that the technology industry needs to change
    • Labour shadow minister Pat McFadden - whom Kuenssberg called "Starmer's Mr Fix It" - asserted that Labour's desire for good ties with the EU does not mean they want to re-join, he said any immigration deal is not about the numbers, and that those seeking to enter the UK will be judged individually
    • The panel included Scottish novelist Irvine Welsh, columnist Jane Moore and social activist Nimco Ali, who gave their thoughts on the entertainment industry, and UK's political parties ahead of the next general election.

    Laura will now join the weekend Newscast with Paddy O'Connell, which you can access on BBC Sounds.

  9. The panel's final thoughtspublished at 10:12 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Let’s take one final look at the thoughts of this morning’s panel.

    Laura asks what they think about McFadden says and if Labour is on course.

    Jane Moore says that he didn't give clear answers and she understands why.

    Irvine Welsh agrees: "I think the biggest problem is that the people don't trust politicians and they absolutely have the right not to", he says.

    Welsh goes to say that it “really it doesn't matter who gets in power. They can't be anything other than the same”, before saying he would abolish voting and replace it with a lottery system.

    Nimco Ali says she feels that Labour is getting its act together under Keir Starmer.

  10. Watch: We do not comment on intelligence issues - Cleverlypublished at 10:03 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    That's all from Pat McFadden.

    Here's what happened earlier when Laura asked Foreign Secretary James Cleverly about the allegations of Chinese "spying" in Parliament.

    Media caption,

    We do not comment on intelligence issues - James Cleverly

  11. Blair and Starmer 'different people for different times'published at 10:00 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Pat McFadden gestures as he speaks with Laura Kuenssberg

    Kuenssberg now turns to the Labour Party conference next month and asks McFadden what he thinks is the difference between former Prime Minister Tony Blair and current leader Sir Keir Starmer.

    They're "different people for different times", says McFadden, chuckling.

    They're both very good men and they both want a Labour Party that is "facing the public rather than talking to itself," he says.

    McFadden adds that Starmer has helped get the party's house in order and changed the focus back on to the voters.

  12. Big ticket items depend on state of the economy - McFaddenpublished at 09:58 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Pat McFadden, Labour shadow minister, is asked if his party is committed to delivering HS2?

    "I want to see high speed rail being built and when it comes to that, we will revise what it costs, then make decisions when it comes to the manifesto."

    Kuenssberg asks if Labour will have a free national care service which will be publicly funded.

    "We want that, it is all about ensuring it operates to a good standard," he says.​

    What about the triple-lock on pensions, will it be there, Kuenssberg asks.

    "All of these big ticket times are going to depend on economy at the time," McFadden says.

  13. Not about the numbers on migrant deal - McFaddenpublished at 09:55 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    A side-on view of Pat McFadden's conversation with Laura Kuenssberg

    Kuenssberg repeats the question - will Labour have a clear number for how many migrants the UK will be willing to accept?

    McFadden says many people who come here on small boats have families and children who want to be reunited.

    Kuenssberg points out that viewers are not hearing a number.

    McFadden asserts that it's not about the numbers and that those wanting to enter the UK will be assessed individually.

  14. McFadden quizzed over Labour plan for EU migrant dealpublished at 09:53 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    On doing a deal with the European Union over returning migrants who arrive in the UK by crossing the English Channel - McFadden is asked whether the Labour Party would put a limit on the number of arrivals they would be willing to accept.

    "I am not sure if that's how it works," McFadden answers:

    "Two important things: we need better international co-operation when it comes to fighting crime. Second thing, we need to tackle the asylum backlog."

  15. Labour won't re-run the Brexit argument, says Pat McFaddenpublished at 09:51 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Pat McFadden speaking to Laura Kuenssberg

    After speaking to Ian Russell about moves to make things safer for children online, Kuenssberg moves to speak with Labour shadow minister Pat McFadden - or "Starmer's Mr Fix It" as she calls him.

    McFadden is in charge of the forthcoming election campaign, and Kuenssberg asks if he thinks that he is the most powerful Labour politician in the opposition.

    "I don't think anybody in opposition is powerful. In opposition you can only talk," McFadden answers.

    Kuenssberg asks what a leave voter is meant to think when they hear closer ties to the EU are Labour policy.

    "We are not going to re-run the Brexit argument. We will try to make best future outside the EU.

    "We want Britain be as powerful as it can, we are a part of Nato and we have UN Security Council membership and soft power around the world.

    "We've got to make the best use of these things," McFadden says.

  16. Russell asked if tech bosses who fail to prevent harmful contents should go to jailpublished at 09:48 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Laura Kuenssberg in conversation with Ian Russell

    What is the next step that you would like to see, Kuenssberg asks? Jail terms for tech bosses?

    Russel replies that is important, not because they will go to jail, but because it "focuses their minds".

    “There needs to be a change in corporate culture in the companies,” he says.

    He adds: “Two decades of social media harm has changed nothing. One of the problems is that it's really hard to communicate this because you cannot share this online harm anywhere - not in the papers, not in the TV.

    “Everyone who saw the images were appalled, except for one person - a representative from Silicon Valley.”

  17. If new law does not stop online harm it will have failed - Ian Russellpublished at 09:44 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Ian Russell and Laura Kuenssberg

    Kuenssberg asks whether the online safety bill will prevent the kind of images that Russell's daughter Molly saw online being seen by other children.

    He replies by saying that will be the test of the bill. There are "too many tragic stories to tell" from families whose children have been affected.

    “If the bill fails to stop online harm, it will have failed,” he says.

  18. Campaigner Ian Russell says online safety bill 'important step'published at 09:42 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Ian Russell

    Kuenssberg is now talking to Ian Russell - who campaigns for better protection for children online after his daughter ended her own life after viewing harmful content.

    Will the government's online safety bill make things safer for kids, she asks?

    "This bill will make the online world safer," Russell says.

    And he says that he is convinced. "It is not perfect," he adds, "But it's an important step, that has been needed for years to counter this technology."

    "The bill is designed to be future proof, it is not technology specific, it is trying to set a protocol for the future.

    "But who is to say what might happen as new technologies emerge which might bring new harms," Russell replies.

  19. Entertainment industry needs to get its house in order, Irvine Welsh sayspublished at 09:39 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Kuenssberg now walks over to the panel, and asks what they made of Cleverly's comments at the end about the entertainment industry having questions to answer following the serious allegations made against comedian Russell Brand.

    Columnist Jane Moore says there is a wider debate about whether people will come forward once a complaint is made across all industries.

    Author Irvine Welsh says the industry needs to "get their house in order" so that people feel more comfortable coming forward.

    Former government adviser Nimco Ali adds this is just the "tip of the iceberg" and there is a real sexual violence problem in the country and within our communities.

    She says she doesn't want to demonise men, but most women know women who have been raped but most men don't know anyone who has committed the crime.

    Laura Kuenssberg panelImage source, Jeff Overs/BBC
  20. Entertainment industry has questions to answer over Brand claims - Cleverlypublished at 09:33 British Summer Time 17 September 2023

    Kuenssberg moves on the allegations against Russell Brand and asks the foreign secretary whether there are wider questions that the entertainment industry must answer?

    "I think there are some real challenges, where you have acute differentials in power, whether that be entertainment or politics," says Cleverly.

    "You have to be particularly careful when listening to the voices of people who are relatively powerless.

    "We collectively missed opportunities to intervene much earlier," he admits.

    When asked if there are questions for the industry to answer, he says: "Sadly, there are."

    A close of James Cleverly