Thomas Mackintosh
Live reporter

That is it from us on another busy political Sunday morning.

We brought you a packed programme with interviews from Foreign Secretary James Cleverly; Labour's David Lammy and the Scottish First Minister Hamza Yousaf.

We also heard from Mark Regev, senior adviser to Israel's prime minister and Husam Zomlot who represents the Palestinian Mission to the UK.

You can watch the programme back here on BBC iPlayer.

This morning's page was written by Craig Hutchison, Laura Gozzi, Dearbail Jordan and myself. It was edited by Rob Corp.

Thanks for joining us - for further coverage on the Israel Hamas war head to our live page here.

Unsurprisingly, the Israel-Hamas war dominated conversations with today's guests on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg.

Israeli government adviser, Mark Regev, denied that Israel's evacuation order in northern Gaza and the withholding of water, food and fuel from the territory is a war crime.

Husam Zomlot, head of the Palestinian Mission to the UK, strongly disputed this and described the situation in Gaza as "horror" and "carnage".

Foreign Secretary James Cleverly insisted the UK government is concerned about all civilians caught up in the conflict but repeated the position that "Israel has the right to defend itself". He admitted the UK government is struggling to get the Rafah border crossing open.

Scotland's First Minister Humza Yousaf pleaded for a ceasefire and humanitarian help for Gaza. His parents-in-law remain trapped there.

Labour's shadow foreign secretary David Lammy remembered the 1,300 Israelis who were murdered by Hamas a week ago. But he said it is important any response "is done within international law".

Finally, former Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind said Hamas appears to have followed Isis's playbook: "Not simply to go for military targets and fight the Israeli government, but to quite deliberately, under instructions from their command, massacre women and children in the most brutal way," he said.

Independence strategy dominatespublished at 10:49 British Summer Time 15 October 2023

10:49 BST 15 October 2023

Andrew Kerr
Scottish political correspondent, reporting from Aberdeen

Delegates are filing into the hall as the SNP conference in Aberdeen begins.

The situation in Gaza dominates - and it was a hard watch this morning to see an emotional first minister recount to the BBC how he and his wife thought they were saying their final goodbyes to her parents who are trapped in Gaza.

The politics goes on though and Humza Yousaf has a lot of work to do for his party - but there’s a huge amount of sympathy for his family’s situation.

Independence strategy dominates conference today and the leadership look amenable to accepting almost everything members want.

This includes switching from winning “most” seats to a “majority” of seats to begin independence negotiations with the UK government.

That’s a higher bar (at least 29 seats) but it’s what members want - and you want those folk out chapping doors in an election campaign.

That maybe didn’t happen as much as it should have done in Rutherglen and Hamilton West.

It sounds like a targeting of Tory seats right here in the North East.

Partly because of that Rutherglen result, pro-union parties are resting a bit easier thinking the party here in Aberdeen is on the backfoot.

• Humza Yousaf's parents-in-law are trapped with family near Gaza City
• Yousaf said Elizabeth El-Nakla called in the early hours of this morning to "say her goodbyes" after warning sirens sounded
• It turned out to be a false alarm but Yousaf repeated his calls for an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. "Civilians are dying," he said
• He said the UK should set up a system to allow Israelis and Palestinians to come to Britain
• On Scottish independence, Yousaf confirmed the SNP will use the next general election as a de facto referendum on the issue
• He said "true change" does not come from turning "Westminster blue to Westminster red. True change comes with independence"
• Yousaf admitted things have not been "entirely rosy" for the SNP over the past six months, with his predecessor Nicola Sturgeon resigning and police investigating the party's finances
• Labour trounced the SNP in the Rutherglen Hamilton West by-election and last week MP Lisa Cameron defected to the Tories
• But Yousaf said he is focusing on helping people with the cost of living and growing the economy.

As we've been reporting, the parents in-law of Scottish First Minister Humza Yousaf are currently trapped in Gaza after travelling to the territory to visit a sick relative.

They arrived before Hamas began its incursion into Israel - leaving hundreds dead - which led the Israeli to lay siege to the Palestinian territory.

Yousaf - his voice cracking as he spoke to Victoria Derbyshire on BBC One earlier - said he heard from his mother-in-law during the early hours of Sunday.

The war in the Middle East dominated this morning's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg.

Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been moving away from the northern Gaza Strip ahead of an expected military offensive by Israel after Hamas fighters murdered hundreds of Israelis last Saturday.

The foreign secretary says he has not specifically asked Israel to wait until all civilians have moved to the south of Gaza before carrying out its ground operation.

Image source, Jeff Overs/BBC

• Foreign Secretary James Cleverly said he has had conversations with Israel about providing aid for Palestinians fleeing northern Gaza and to allow for the evacuation of people at the Rafah crossing with between Gaza and Egypt
• But he said it is "an incredibly difficult circumstance there"
• Cleverly admits he has not asked Israel to give Palestinians more time to evacuate from northern Gaza.
• But he said there is a distinction between Israel and Hamas - Israel have been telling people to leave but Hamas want Palestinians to stay and use them as "human shields" against attack
• The foreign secretary said the UK is committed to international human law: "And when we see breaches of that we raise that, including with Israel."
• On what the UK is doing to help British citizens trapped in Gaza or being held hostage, Cleverly said he has been speaking to Egyptian and Israeli authorities and others in the region to get the Rafah crossing open
• But he said: "At the moment we have not been successful in getting the Rafah crossing opened."

Before Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg comes off air, we heard from the panel - starting with former Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind who reflects on the scale of the atrocities and where we are now.

"I think the most disturbing thing from what has happened is the Hamas decision essentially to follow Isis [also known as Islamic State]," he says.

"Not simply to go for military targets and fight the Israeli government, but to quite deliberately under instructions from their command massacre women and children in the most brutal way.

"The last time we saw that was when Isis were decapitating people

"That is the most repugnant thing."

Turning to the independence policy of his party, Yousaf points out the next test will be the general election.

He agrees with Victoria Derbyshire that there must be a sustained majority for independence.

Yousaf says he would hold a referendum tomorrow if the UK government agreed.

If the SNP win the majority of Scottish seats at Westminster that would give him a mandate to begin negotiations, he says.

Victoria turns to a cloud of words which people associate with the SNP leader.

"Independence" is the most prominent but "useless" is also to the fore.

The first minister accepts the SNP has had a difficult time for six months

Victoria Derbyshire questions Humza Yousaf about domestic issues and of course the cost of living crisis.

Scotland's first minister lays the blame for that with the Conservative government at Westminster.

"True change comes with independence," Yousaf insists.

He says: "I got into politics to transform lives."

More from Yousaf who believes the UK should allow Palestinians and Israelis to come to the country to seek safety.

The first minister says he spoke to Foreign Secretary James Cleverly a couple of days ago and praised the Foreign Office for "working hard".

He says he appealed to the foreign secretary to be "unequivocal" as he described the UK as a "trusted ally".

Yousaf says there needs to be a humanitarian corridor, supplies need to come in to Gaza and the Rafah crossing to Egypt must be open.

"There must be a ceasefire," he adds.

Image source, FAMILY HANDOUT

Victoria Derbyshire is now talking to Scotland's First Minister Humza Yousaf - ahead of the SNP's conference beginning in Aberdeen.

Yousaf begins by talking about his in-laws who are stuck in Gaza. "Last night was a very difficult night," he says.

The first minister explains he got a call from his mother-in-law at 1am in a "panic" although it turned out this was in response to a false alarm.

"Nowhere in Gaza seems safe at all, he says, adding: "There has to be an immediate ceasefire."

Yousaf also calls for a humanitarian corridor to be introduced. He says the majority of Palestinians in Gaza have nothing to do with Hamas, who he said he "condemned unequivocally".

"They are being collectively punished and that cannot be justified."

He says his mother-in-law had only eaten one egg and had sips of water since Israel's siege of Gaza began.

Victoria Derbyshire asks David Lammy about advice from the Labour leadership to councillors and MPs advising them not to attend protests connected to events in Israel and Gaza.

Lammy touches on his own north London constituency which covers Stamford Hill - an area with a large Jewish population.

"Lots of MPs are receiving messages," he says.

"It is important that as we face and want to be the next government that people do not share platforms with people who do not share Labour's values and that they are careful and cautious.

"If you are a Labour MP you should always be careful whom you share platforms with. At this moment and you should be very careful and do nothing to drive division in our communities."

Image source, Jeff Overs/BBC

We turn now to Labour's shadow foreign secretary David Lammy, who is asked whether he supports the order of the Israeli government to evacuate Gaza.

He starts by remembering the 1,300 Israelis murdered by Hamas last weekend and says: "Of course Israel has the right to deal with that terrorism, to get those hostages and to degrade the rockets and military equipment being used against them."

"However, it's hugely important that is done within international law," Lammy says.

Asked again whether he supports the order to move civlians from one side of Gaza to the other, Lammy says: "It's not a yes or no. I'm hoping one day to be foreign secretary or chief diplomat... so it's not a yes or no."

"We have rules [to] minimise death," he says, adding that the Israeli PM warned there would be an invasion of Gaza and "against that backdrop of course it is right civilians must not be in harm's way."

Finally, the foreign secretary is asked about British people in Gaza.

Cleverly admits the UK government has struggled to get the Rafah border crossing open.

For context, the Rafah border is the sole crossing point between Egypt and the south of the Gaza Strip.

Cleverly tells the programme he has been speaking to Egyptian and Israeli authorities to "try and facilitate" the opening of the Rafah crossing.

But, so far the government has "not been successful" in getting it open.

Derbyshire now turns to comments from Jan Egeland, the Norwegian Refugee Council's general secretary.

She quotes him saying the Israeli order for civilians to move south is a "war crime" and she asks Cleverly if he agrees.

"The UK government is absolutely committed to the adherence of international law," the foreign secretary says.

He insists the British government raises any breaches with Israel.

Derbyshire asks James Cleverly if he has been urging Israeli officials to wait for civilians to be moved out of Gaza before any offensive is carried out.

"I haven't asked that specific question," Cleverly says.

Israel has told people to leave northern Gaza but Hamas is trying to prevent people from doing so, he says.

He alleges that they may be used as a "human shield".

Foreign Secretary James Cleverly is now in the hot seat.

Victoria Derbyshire asks him about whether the UK is giving a "green light" to the Israeli government for its actions in Gaza.

He says that "the Palestinian people are suffering because of the actions of Hamas - as well as the Israeli people with the most brutal attack for decades".

"We are very clear that Hamas are causing death and pain to Israelis as well as Palestinians," he continues.

Asked about the looming ground offensive and Israel's plan to attack by land, air and sea, Cleverly says he is of course worried by the loss of life in Gaza.

But he adds: "Israel has the right to defend itself and protect itself from terrorist attacks from Hamas coming out of Gaza.

"They do have a duty to minimise civilian casualties and I've raised this in every conversation I've had with the Israeli government about this issue."

Next to join the show is head of the Palestinian Mission to the UK Husam Zomlot - he represents the Palestinian Authority which runs parts of the Israeli-occupied West Bank. The PA, run by the Fatah party, is a rival to Hamas, which runs Gaza and attacked Israel last weekend.

Zomlot describes the situation right in Gaza as "horror" and carnage".

He takes issue with Regev's comments about Israel respecting international law, saying one of the major hospitals in Gaza was bombed yesterday.

"All images we are receiving are of families being slaughtered," Zomlot says.

"The British government needs to stick to its own historic, legal and political responsibilities and to stop giving the green light to those fanatics in the Israeli government."

Pressed repeatedly by Victoria how much support Hamas has in Gaza, Zomlot says most people don't ally with particular political factions. For those who do, the majority align with Fatah, he claims.

Regev then rejects comments made by some - including UN officials - that some Israeli actions could amount to war crimes.

The BBC yesterday verified a video showing a convoy of Gaza civilians coming under fire, which caused several casualties.

Earlier today, an IDF spokesman told the BBC the video was "fake news". Regev says: "This was staged by Hamas to discourage people from leaving. Israel does not target non-combatant innocent civilians."

"I disagree [that non-combatants in Gaza have died]," Regev says, refuting a figure of over 2000 civilian casualties shared by the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza. "Those numbers are put out by Hamas... There is no distinction between combatants and non-combatants."

"We don't want to see civilians caught up in the crossfire between Israel and Hamas. But to say that Israel can't defend itself against these gruesome killers - that's a bridge too far," Regev concludes.