Nick Robinson
Presenter, Radio 4 Today

Do the Conservatives have a death wish? I asked the woman who is positioning herself as the real leader of the opposition that question this morning.

Suella Braverman, the home secretary who was sacked by Rishi Sunak, laughed nervously in reply.

Yet the talk of death is hers and his, not mine.

Braverman says this is a do-or-die moment for her party - either they pass a bill to stop the courts frustrating their Rwanda policy or they face what she calls electoral oblivion.

Sunak told his MPs to unite or die just hours before his friend and ally Robert Jenrick, the man he appointed to draw up a policy to stop the boats, quit his job saying he refused to be yet another politician who makes promises on immigration but does not keep them.

This argument is not just about policy, it is a personal battle about who controls the Conservative Party and whether there is another - yes, another - Tory leadership election.

Suella Braverman always uses broadcast interviews to insist she only wants to talk about policy and not personalities.

This is why I thought it right and fair this morning to ask her to respond to what so many of her critics believe - namely that she is a headline chaser who spreads poison about those she disagrees with in her party, lawyers, the courts, the police, civil servants, migrants, the homeless and those who protest against civilian deaths in Gaza.

Former Home Secretary Suella Braverman has told the BBC the government "can't keep failing the British people" on illegal immigration and has urged Prime Minister Rishi Sunak to change course.

She told Radio 4's Today programme that plan after plan had been put forward and "they have all failed" and that the latest bid to send asylum seekers to Rwanda "will not stop the boats".

• You can listen to the full interview here

Former Home Secretary Suella Braverman has given her first broadcast interview since being sacked to BBC Radio 4's Today programme:

• She denied the Tory party has a "death wish", but said: "We are in a very perilous situation"
• She said the "sorry truth" is the Rwanda Bill "won't work" and "will not stop the boats"
• She argued there is "intellectual incoherence" in Rishi Sunak saying the Rwandan government would not accept anything which broke international law because the current bill already disapplied some elements
• She said she hopes Sunak leads the Conservatives in to the next general election
• She stated that she wants the PM to succeed - despite previously describing him as "uncertain", "weak" and "lacking in leadership qualities"
• Challenged on her controversial statements and attacks on judges, the police, migrants and the homeless, she said she always "sought to be honest" even when it has "upset polite society"

if you want more on this, Nick Robinson and Amol Rajan will be discussing the interview with Suella Braverman on The Today Podcast out later today.

Henry Zeffman
Chief political correspondent

"Ultimately this bill will fail" was the starkest warning delivered by Suella Braverman, as she urged Rishi Sunak to change course.

The crucial question is what Braverman and Conservative MPs who agree with her will do if the prime minister does not do so.

As it stands we expect a second reading vote on the emergency bill in the Commons next week, which is the main vote on the principles of the legislation.

If enough Conservative MPs were to unite with Labour to vote the bill down, be in no doubt, that would all but explode Sunak’s remaining authority over his party and make a confidence vote or even a general election much likelier.

For that reason, it may be Braverman and the Tory right back away from doing it.

They may, while expressing public reservations, vote for the bill now but try to toughen it up further down the legislative track.

This would still expose divisions in the Conservative Party, but in a less dramatic way.

From Braverman’s interview, it appears she is keeping her options open. But the government’s own decision to rush this legislation through the Commons means she will be making a decision about how far to go very soon.

Nick Robinson turns to Braverman's motivation for speaking out.

"You condemned the leaders of your party as 'weak' and 'lacking in leadership'... You've attacked judges, civil servants, the head of the Met Police... the homeless, migrants... Isn't the truth that you're a headline grabber that does it by spreading poison even in your own party?" he asks.

"The truth is that... I sought to be honest," Braverman replies. "And sometimes honesty is uncomfortable."

Braverman says she does not "shy away" from "telling people how it is".

"If that upsets polite society, I'm sorry about that."

She adds: "We need to be honest, we need to be clear about the situation right now. We can't keep failing the British people."

Robinson asks her if the "honest answer" is that it is "always all about you?"

Braverman is silent for a moment, then says: "No, I wouldn't say that at all. I gave a statement yesterday when I talked almost exclusively about the policies and what we need to do.

"I urge the PM to change course and change policy."

Asked about Rishi Sunak's future in No 10 Downing Street, Braverman says she wants him to succeed.

A slightly incredulous Nick Robinson reads back a section of Braverman's letter after her sacking, in which she described Sunak as uncertain, weak and lacking in leadership qualities.

He asks her if people should believe she really wants Sunak to succeed or tear him down and take his job.

Braverman replies "we are all Conservatives" and says she wants the PM to fulfil his promise to stop the boats.

She adds she has told him what is required to do that and it is "his choice as to what he does", and goes on to urge him to listen to his MPs.

Today's Nick Robinson moves on to talk about Braverman's old boss - Rishi Sunak - and brings up her "excoriating" letter after she was sacked a few weeks ago where she described the PM as being "incapable" or making promises he "never intended on keeping".

"The prime minister has a very difficult job with lots of conflicting factors to weigh up on any decision," Braverman says.

"All I know is when I took up the role of home secretary I put forward a plan to stop the boats, based on my experience with previous prime ministers and he gave extensive reassurances that plan could be delivered.

"Ultimately he blocked that plan."

Braverman says she hopes the prime minister changes course insisting there is "still time" - if not Braverman says the bill is "destined to fail".

Robinson notes that this morning a Downing St official said Braverman is "denying" reality as Rwanda has insisted it would not be party to an agreement that breaches international law.

Braverman says she is "surprised" by the statement.

Is the government lying when it says the Rwandan authorities would not go ahead with the deal if it breaks international law, Nick Robinson asks.

"What I'm saying is that there is an intellectual incoherence," she answers.

But are they lying, she is again asked.

"I don't know," Braverman answers.

Braverman is asked about criticism of her view by former Supreme Court justice Lord Sumption, who says she is wrong about the bill not preventing legal challenges to Rwanda flights.

The former home secretary, who is a qualified barrister, says she disagrees and there are clear sections which allow various claims to be brought in the courts.

Challenged on the fact Sumption says the courts won't block the flights, Braverman says he is wrong and she has "been working at the bill for several years now".

Braverman says asylum seekers will bring legal challenges and she believes the courts will block flights to Rwanda.

"The reality is, and the sorry truth is, it won't work. And it will not stop the boats. That's my opinion having read it in the last 12, 24 hours."

Suella Braverman is on Radio 4's Today programme - first she is asked if the party has a "death wish".

Braverman says: "Not at all. We are fighting to stop the boats, stabilise the economy and deliver for the British people.

"We are in a very perilous situation."

She says the time for talk and slogan promises is over.

Image source, PA Media

As we've reported, ex-Home Secretary Suella Braverman is due on BBC Radio 4's Today programme imminently.

She was sacked by Rishi Sunak last month and went on to strongly criticise his Rwanda policy.

Listen live by pressing play at the top of the page.

Helen Catt
Political correspondent

A Downing Street source says that Conservatives "need to operate within reality" and warns there is "no full-fat option" for the Rwanda scheme.

The source says the current bill is "the only route to having a working deterrent scheme this side of the election" and that "anyone who believes in tough action to tackle illegal immigration must back it".

A former Conservative solicitor general has told the BBC the government should "find a practical policy response" to immigration issues rather than "try to evade the law".

Edward Garnier, who served under David Cameron between 2010 and 2012, says the government's plan is "legislation by assertion that cannot be challenged".

In a statement to BBC Radio 4's Today programme he said:

How does the new Rwanda bill work?published at 07:44 Greenwich Mean Time 7 December 2023

07:44 GMT 7 December 2023

Dominic Casciani
Home and legal correspondent

In last month's Supreme Court ruling, five justices unanimously ruled that Rwanda was not safe - and they listed the detailed evidence about how its asylum system was deeply flawed.

The government's package tries to deal with this part of the defeat by asking Parliament to declare Rwanda to be "conclusively" safe and simultaneously banning British judges from ever saying it is not.

That is aimed at preventing the courts from once again considering documented evidence about injustices in Rwanda's asylum system.

Taken to a hypothetical extreme, if Rwanda exploded with civil war like in 1994 (not something currently likely to happen), British law would still state the country was a safe place to send people.

The plan then orders British judges and courts to ignore the sections of the Human Rights Act that set out how they should interpret safeguards set out in the European Convention of Human Rights. That includes the right not to be tortured, or the right to a fair hearing before a court.

It also prevents judges from considering other international laws - most importantly the Refugee Convention and the United Nations' ban on torture.

Finally, it says our courts must ignore any other British law that stands in the way of finding the country to be safe - this is important because the Supreme Court said such laws exist.

• Read more here

Image source, PA Media

Senior Labour MP Pat McFadden is doing the rounds of the broadcast studios this morning, and he tells BBC Breakfast that the Conservative Party is "tearing themselves apart over a scheme which is failing".

McFadden added that the Rwanda Bill at the centre of the current row is likely to be "strongly challenged" in the courts.

"It is time for a different course and that should be to focus on the illegal criminal gangs organising this trade," McFadden says, adding the government has sent more home secretaries to Rwanda than it has asylum seekers.

He explains money from the Rwanda scheme should be used for "more enforcement and more international co-operation".

Sunak wanted Tories to 'unite or die' - then Jenrick quitpublished at 07:25 Greenwich Mean Time 7 December 2023

07:25 GMT 7 December 2023

Henry Zeffman
Chief political correspondent

On the morning after the night before, this feels like the gravest crisis of Rishi Sunak’s leadership so far.

He has put "stopping the boats" at the heart of his political strategy.

The emergency legislation on Rwanda published yesterday was designed to be strong enough to provide the deterrent effect the government wants, but avoiding the more radical option of setting aside European human rights laws altogether, which the Rwandan government appears to have baulked at.

In the end this compromise didn’t even satisfy Sunak’s own immigration minister.

What now? We are still expecting the main vote on the principle of the legislation next week. If the Tory right joined with Labour to vote it down, that would be the nuclear option.

There are some suggestions that to avoid this, Sunak might designate it a confidence vote - meaning that MPs would have the whip withdrawn if they defied him. Whether he has the political strength to make that threat is unclear, though.

And in the excitable world of Westminster, there’s chatter that soon Conservative MPs might trigger a confidence vote in Sunak’s leadership.

And there are even some Conservatives who think their party is becoming so unruly that Sunak may be forced to call a general election sooner than planned.

Shortly before Robert Jenrick’s resignation yesterday, Sunak told Conservative MPs, as he did when he became prime minister last year, that they must unite or die.

Right now, they are certainly not uniting.

Image source, PA Media

As we mentioned in our post at 06:25, Suella Braverman is expected to appear on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme in her first broadcast interview since she was sacked as home secretary by Rishi Sunak last month.

On Wednesday, she told MPs the Conservatives face “electoral oblivion in a matter of months” if they introduce the government’s Rwanda legislation which is “destined to fail”.

Braverman used a personal statement in the Commons yesterday to say that the bill must block off all routes of legal challenge to allow flights to Rwanda to take off. She then set out a number of tests it would need to meet to do this.

She’s currently due to speak to Nick Robinson on Today at 08:10, and we’ll be covering that interview here.

We've just heard from Liberal Democrats leader Sir Ed Davey, who says the government does not seem able to "pull themselves out of their cycle of chaos and failure".

He says Prime Minister Rishi Sunak appears unable to govern anymore, describing ministers as "completely incompetent".

Davey adds that the PM should "do the decent thing" and call a general election, arguing it is failing to tackle urgent issues like the cost of living crisis and the NHS.

Asked on BBC Breakfast what his plan for stopping small boats crossing the channel, Davey says the key issue is to deal with the backlog of asylum applications.

He says the government also needs to do more to address the "international criminal gangs" operating the boats, accusing the Conservatives turning their back on allies.

Davey adds that another key move is to set up "safe and legal routes" for asylum seekers to reach the UK, so the government can address their applications "before they reach the Channel".

A bleak mood in Conservative Partypublished at 07:00 Greenwich Mean Time 7 December 2023

07:00 GMT 7 December 2023

Chris Mason
Political editor

Rishi Sunak is seeking a route to Rwanda for migrants that is legally, practically and politically navigable.

Legally, because he has to find a way to address the concerns of the Supreme Court, who said his earlier plan was unlawful.

Practically, because he wants migrants on planes to Rwanda before the general election.

And politically because he has to simultaneously persuade those broadly on the left of his party who fret about any ideas they might regard as extreme and those on the right who fret he doesn't have the stomach to go far enough.

But the blunt truth is we now know his former immigration minister, Robert Jenrick, thinks he's destined to fail, again.

He had been talking to the prime minister for around a week about his concerns - and now he has resigned.

This matters because cutting illegal immigration is important to hundreds of Conservative MPs and millions of voters.

It matters, too, because having been a cork on Conservative chaos for much of his year and a bit as prime minister - in contrast to what came immediately before under Liz Truss and Boris Johnson - a moment like this has the potential to send that cork whizzing over the No 10 garden wall.

• Read more here

Image source, PA Media

The former solicitor became a Conservative MP when he won a 2014 by-election in the Nottinghamshire seat of Newark, before topping the poll in the seat at the 2015 general election.

He entered the cabinet as housing secretary in 2019 by then-Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

Jenrick, a 41-year-old father-of-three, also briefly served as a junior health minister in Liz Truss's government, despite backing Rishi Sunak for the Tory leadership.

As immigration minister he consistently pushed for a harder line on legal and illegal immigration, expressing frustration at the high levels of both.

He was also at the centre of several controversies, including a row over approving planning permission for Tory donor Richard Desmond.

Jenrick was also criticised for ordering a mural of Disney characters at a child asylum centre to be painted over.