Image source, bbc

Kim Leslie from the Law Society of Scotland says "Support will be necessary, in part to manage expectations."

Ms Leslie says she would hate to dash the hopes of a jubilant claimant.

She says: "When one meets a lawyer it is quite intimidating at times."

Ms Leslie says it is to the survivor themselves that one has to says you must provide the building blocks and detail.

She says "For some survivors that may be problematic."

Tory MSP Douglas Ross asks if there is enough support available for those who may be unsuccessful after this process.

Bruce Adamson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says he would like to see more support for survivors to understand the totality of the process.

Mr Adamson says there is "a bit of a gap" in support at the moment.

He says more work needs to be done to ensure survivors know what their options are.

Bruce Adamson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says cost should not be a factor in access for justice.

Mr Adamson say this is not going to be the best approach for a number of survivors so only a percentage will go to civil court.

Image source, bbc

He stresses again the importance of support for survivors in choosing how to pursue justice.    

"We should not be afraid of the numbers going up."

SNP MSP Rona Mackay asks the witnesses to comment on the number of cases that will be brought forward as a result of the Bill.

Ms Mackay asks how much of an impact this is likely to have on the courts. 

Kim Leslie from the Law Society of Scotland says it is difficult to estimate how many cases will be brought forward as a result of the Bill.

Green MSP John Finnie says standards of acceptable practice of what could or could not be done to a child, like corporal punishment, have changed and there is still a way to go. 

Mr Finnie asks if retrospective claims could be made.

Laura Dunlop QC from the Faculty of Advocates says in terms of slopping out that was possible.

Ms Dunlop says the right to damages is for an injury suffered at a time in the past, when according to the standards at the time what was being done was not wrong.

Bruce Adamson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says the behaviour at the time must be looked at by the standards of the time.   

SNP MSP Stewart Stevenson asks what is meant by pursuer's expenses. 

Kim Leslie from the Law Society of Scotland says, as a lawyer, she would understand expenses to be her fees and costs incurred at bringing about a case. 

Ms Leslie says the principal she understood is that those who have been compensated in the past would be barred.

She says those who have tried and failed are in a worse position that those who have never tried before and that is illogical.

Image source, NSPCC

Calls to a helpline about suspected child abuse, which were referred to the authorities, have risen,   according to a charity.

The   NSPCC in Scotland , external  said operators referred 1,722 calls to the police and social services in 2015-2016.

Referred calls have risen by 58% in the past three years, up from 1,091 in 2012-2013.

Laura Dunlop QC from the Faculty of Advocates says, arguably, the term that is missing is "physiological abuse" because there may be a difference between this and emotional abuse.

Kim Leslie from the Law Society of Scotland says psychological harm is likely to be suffered therefore there may be more required on this. 

Bruce Adamson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says he agrees and that the terms just allow some to overcome that initial barrier. 

Image source, bbc

Committee convener Margaret Mitchell asks again about spiritual abuse in the form of indoctrination.

Bruce Adamson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says he is very aware of the answer Harry Aiken gave last week that there was a difference with spiritual abuse.

He says he is not in a position to say there is.   

Mr Adamson says survivors need to be clear about what is begin included in the legislation.

SNP MSP Ben Macpherson asks the witnesses to comment on the inclusion of emotional abuse and whether it will create confusion.

Laura Dunlop QC from the Faculty of Advocates says she would see this as a drafting matter and that it is important to develop meanings.

"I tend to favour simplicity," she says. 

Ms Dunlop says she would be interested in the views of those who have drafted the list as to whether they believe it is robust enough.

Kim Leslie from the Law Society of Scotland says her organisation wanted neglect included in the bill, on behalf of claimant practitioners.

Bruce Adamson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says there is a very good understanding of what neglect means and it has been well defined.

Mr Adamson says: "We aren't talking about trivial matters."

He says any limitation on the definition of abuse could create more barriers to justice.  

Not including neglect would seem a bit strange, he says.

Laura Dunlop QC from the Faculty of Advocates says so much of the Bill is about striking balances.

Ms Dunlop says it is open to the courts to develop with law particularly with emotional abuse.

Bruce Adamson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says he agrees.

Mr Adamson says "neglect needs to be protected against and remedied for".  

He says the commission has concerns over the removal of neglect from the list.

SNP MSP Mairi Evans says last week there was a suggestion that spiritual abuse should be included in the description of abuse.

Kim Leslie from the Law Society of Scotland says a practitioner representing the claimant and one representing the defender will never find consensus on this.

Ms Leslie says she would have to see the definition of spiritual abuse before commenting, but it could be included in emotional abuse.

SNP MSP Ben Machpherson says if the abuse happened before 1964, under the new regime, the case will not go ahead.

Kim Leslie from the Law Society of Scotland says her organisation feels the Scottish government have struck the right balance.

Image source, bbc

Ms Leslie says the survivors gave powerful evidence last week.

There is never going to be a neat solution that pleases everybody, she says, but if a line has to be drawn then the line the government has chosen gets her backing. 

Laura Dunlop QC from the Faculty of Advocates agrees.

Laura Dunlop QC from the Faculty of Advocates says reversing the onus is a significant factor.

Ms Dunlop says the defender will have to put forward specifics on prejudice.

She says changes are almost bound to have an affect.

"Law, particularly in personal injury, does go through a reboot from time to time," she says. 

Bruce Adamson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says the commission would like to see more clarity, as there is concern among survivors that the same barrier may still be put in place.

Mr Adamson says even switching the onus to the defender may lead to a barrier.

He says to put another procedural barrier in place could have unintended consequences, albeit that the defender's rights must be observed.   

Lib Dem MSP Liam McArthur asks what greater certainty there is that there will be greater access to justice as a result of this.

Kim Leslie from the Law Society of Scotland says there is reversal of the burden of truth because the burden with this bill lies with the defender.

Ms Leslie says there is a risk but the burden reversal will assist. 

"Passage of time need not be an automatic bar to proceedings continuing," she says. 

Image source, bbc

In its submission to the committee the Scottish Human Rights Commission , external says:

"The Commission strongly supports this bill. 

"The Commission has been working since 2009 to promote effective access to justice and remedies for survivors of historic child abuse. 

"Ensuring the full and effective participation of survivors in all decisions on the means of realising the rights of effective access to justice and effective remedies has been crucial to the Commission‟s work in this area."

Read more here., external

Laura Dunlop QC from the Faculty of Advocates says it is reasonable to hold the opinion that the "discretion has been sparingly exercised".

Ms Dunlop says in fact she only found one case where a judge had used the discretion.

She says most of the civil claims are against organisations not individuals which can be more difficult. 

Image source, bbc

Bruce Adamson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says the legislature needs to give clear direction as to where the balance should be struck and the discretion was quite limited.  

Tory MSP Douglas Ross asks why judges have not been using their discretion that they currently have.

Kim Leslie from the Law Society of Scotland says it is "a very good point" because there exists an opportunity for judges to do so.

Ms Leslie says it may be "natural conservatism".