Labour MSP Neil Findlay says "tax is the price we pay for a civilised society."

Mr Findlay says it makes him very angry when the debate is reduced to language such as "tax grab".

The Labour MSP says: "If you see tax as a burden... you buy into the neo-liberalism concept."

He questions how the cut to APD is progressive.

Tory MSP Bill Bowman says: "We all want to see a fair tax system."

Mr Bowman says he welcomes efforts from the SNP to avoid increasing income tax.

The Tory MSP says the change in that stance is the "opportunistic" approach "we've come to expect from the SNP."

Finance Secretary Derek Mackay intervenes to asks what the Tory's position on income tax is.

Mr Bowman says that has been covered.

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SNP MSP Kate Forbes says the Tories have condemned the SNP for not prejudging the discussion on taxation.

Ms Forbes says the SNP amendment calls for the end of austerity and a lifting of the public sector pay cap, as well as the creation of a progressive tax policy.

She calls for collaboration around tax and then other areas of the economy.

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Mr Rennie calls for more information from the finance secretary on his discussion paper, asking who is going to write it.

The Scottish Lib Dem leader calls for reassurances on the discussion paper.

Mr Rennie says the Lib Dems are not in favour of increasing or cutting tax at every opportunity but that it is about a balance.

The Scottish Lib Dem leader says it is a proposal to increase tax by a modest 1p and invest this money directly into education.

He says lifelong learning has been abandoned by this government and there needs to be more investment in the Pupil Equity Fund as the government calls it.

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Scottish Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie says his party will engage with the finance secretary constructively on his budget.

Mr Rennie says he is not sure what the SNP position is but says "their rhetoric is fantastic".

Tory MSP Murdo Fraser asks Mr Rennie if the discussion around tax would be considerably enabled if the SNP revealed ther tax plans

Mr Rennie says he slightly disagrees and says fact the SNP is willing to have this discussion indicates a move away from its manifesto which he welcomes.

Mr Harvie says he refuses to accept anyone on an MSPs "very, very generous salary" cannot afford to pay more.

The Green co-convener says there must be an end to the public sector pay cap and austerity but it not be made by increasing the tax of lower income earners.

He says he hopes the Lib Dems are not still calling for a 1p in tax increase for all.

Scottish Greens' co-convener Patrick Harvie says his party would not change the personal allowance on income tax.

Mr Harvie says the basic rate should be split into two.

He says this would mean the tipping point of paying tax would be around the average salary in Scotland.

Mr Harvie says if required his party's figures can be revisited.

Scottish Greens co-covener Patrick Harvie says Murdo Fraser's claim that we are "awash with money" does not add up.

Mr Harvie acknowledges that the government has opened a debate but says it should have been done when powers were devolved.

He says his party's manifesto position is to raise additional revenue and and to close the inequality gap through progressive tax.

The finance secretary intervenes to says money for education was increased through the attainment fund and the Tories opposed this.

Mr Fraser says his party did not oppose the attainment fund per se but rather the budget which he says took money out of the pockets of hard working Scots.

Mr Fraser says all the "shrieking about austerity" does not reflect the fact that we are in the same position we were in 2010.

The Tory MSP says there is not enough money making the front line.

Mr Mackay intervenes to ask where the Tories would get the money to balance the books.

Mr Fraser says there is far more money going into Scottish public services than there is elsewhere in the UK but that the results are not as good.

The Tory MSP says the answer is not to take more money from hardworking Scottish families.

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SNP MSP Gillian Martin says the public are fed up off politicians having entrenched positions on things.

This brings some applause and laughter from the opposition party MSPs.

Mr Fraser thanks Ms Martin for making his point which is that the SNP should have the courtesy to tell the chamber their position on income tax, as all the other parties are open on this.

Tory MSP Murdo Fraser says there have been several discussions in recent years over whether this parliament should have tax raising powers.

Mr Fraser says his party have always been up front with their views and that the government are "remarkably coy" in giving their own plans on tax.

"It's a case of you show me yours but I won't show you mine," he says.

Mr Mackay says the Scottish government has announced a lifting of the 1% pay cap on public sector pay.

The finance secretary says due to UK government austerity, Brexit and changing demographics there will be increased pressure on public services.

Mr Mackay says he is committed to a progressive tax policy.