The endowment issue was a breach of public trust, asserts the convener.

We need to be clear about how much money was transferred, how much was spent and how much is being repaid she says.

Which bit of work is looking at this, the convener asks.

Ms McLaughlin says Grant Thorntons' report will look at the board's accounts and what was transferred to endowment funds.

A draft of report will be delivered to me on Tuesday, she confirms, and will likely be made public within a week of that.

Ms Marra states the cabinet secretary will appear before the committee on 24 May and it expected to have this report by then.

Ms McLaughlin agrees to write to the committee to confirm when it will be available.

I will only be satisfied when we have the figure in front of us and we know for certain not charitable funds are sitting in NHS Tayside's core budget, the convener states.

Image source, bbc

Committee convener Jenny Marra points out the Herald's source said £4.3m was transferred from the NHS Tayside endowment fund of which £2.71m was spent in 2012-14.

Ms Marra's concern asks whether this means £1.6m might still be in the core spending budget, having been in the charity endowment budget originally.

Christine McLaughlin from the Scottish government says the total level of potential bids that went to the endowment committee was closer to £6m.

After some complexity and further probing from Ms Marra, Ms McLaughlin confirms that the figure that was charged from the endowment funds at year end was more than £2.71m at £3.6m, but that is still being clarified by the board.

SNP MSP Alex Neil asks what the total cost of all the investigations and reports in NHS Tayside over the last five years, and who is paying for it.

Paul Gray says the EY work cost £211,000.

He agrees to update the committee in writing.

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Committee convener Jenny Marra asks if what NHS Tayside are doing in terms of prescribing paracetamol undermines the government's policy of free prescriptions.

Mr Gray argues: "No I don't think it does, I certainly don't think it is intended to."

Image source, bbc

The Sunday Post reported in April that NHS Tayside has banned one-off prescriptions for paracetamol and ibuprofen as managers attempted to plug a projected £44.1 million shortfall this year.

The report said bosses hoped the move, along with other cuts including axing all homeopathy services, will save up to £2.5m a year.

Read more of the Sunday Post article here., external

Tory MSP Liam Kerr says much of what is going on is due to short-term fixes rather than looking at long-term sustainability.

How do we make the switch towards looking at the long-term, he asks.

Mr Gray says staff need confidence that they are able to raise concerns.

We also need to be absolutely sure that we don't include optimism bias in predictions, he adds.

"We need to accept that sometimes change is hard."

The chief executive suggests that changes are often led with the negative, pointing out what a health board is going to stop doing.

Instead we should be clearer about what we are doing and why, he states.

Tory MSP Liam Kerr points out no one seems to have gained from the use of endowment funds at NHS Tayside and therefore he argues that the board must have been doing what they did out of need.

The Tory MSP argues the issue at NHS Tayside is one of financial sustainability and asks if the board has been isolated to detract from underfunding and long term failure in the system.

Mr Gray says: "I'd like to think that the committee would accept that whatever flaws I have cowardice isn't one of them".

"If I thought I had done wrong in this I would take responsibility for this."

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The NHS is under pressure here in Scotland, that is why we have developed a transformational approach, he points out.

Mr Gray says: "We are addressing the issues we face, I think, as comprehensively as any health service in the developed world."

He insists he has not scapegoated the leadership of a particular board.

Christine McLaughlin from the Scottish Government informs the committee brokerage has been agreed NHS Ayrshire and Arran and NHS Highland, apart from NHS Tayside.

The Labour MSP notes several boards are seeking brokerage and Paul Gray responds that this is a responsible solution.

Iain Gray MSP asks if other health boards have been looked at to check they are not having the same issues as NHS Tayside.

Image source, Getty Images

I can absolutely assure you that the issues that have emerged in Tayside are well understood by the chairs, finance directors and me, the NHS Scotland chief executive says.

Paul Gray adds it would be "foolish" to suggest there were no issues given the size of the budget and number of staff involved, but he adds that other boards will be aware of the circumstances surrounding Tayside.

Image source, PA

Senior figures at NHS Tayside were "misled" about the true state of the organisation's finances, NHS Scotland chief executive Paul Gray has claimed.

He told a committee hearing at the Scottish parliament in March he was "very unhappy" about what had happened.

Mr Gray told MSPs he expected NHS Tayside would require a further Scottish government loan of £9m-£12m.

A review of the board's finances found it had "misrepresented" its finances from 2012 to 2017.

Read more.

A possible explanation would be that NHS Tayside was asked by the Scottish government to do something that was impossible because it did not have the resource it required to deliver services, Labour MSP Iain Gray suggests.

"It's theoretically possible," agrees Paul Gray.

However, if an accountable officer is asked to do something impossible they should have said so, he argues.

Transformation is essential because the status quo is unsustainable, the chief exec states.

Image source, bbc

NHS Scotland chief executive Paul Gray states the pace of transformational change is an underlying issue at NHS Tayside which has wider applicability.

Mr Gray argues that a series of short term fixes, rather than sustainable transofrmation at NHS Tayside, were the issue.

He posits: "All of the health boards in Scotland are going through a process of transformational change."

This is due to changes in demographics and the NHS, he points out.

Mr Gray suggests that NHS Tayside's agreement to pay back the endowment funds is a clear signal that it does not believe the process followed was right.

Mr Marra argues signals about the long-term sustainable funding issues at the health board were there.

The chief executive replies that some of the signals were picked up over a year ago when Sir Lewis Ritchie was asked to go in with an advisory group, external.

These reports are looking at what we did not know and why, he explains.

Tory MSP Liam Kerr suggests there may be ambiguity in the government guidance around the use of endowment funds.

Mr Gray disagrees but adds that if OSCR finds there is, he will respond as appropriate.

The new management team at NHS Tayside must "restore public confidence" in the health board, Shona Robison has said.

The Scottish health secretary was in Dundee to meet the board for the first time under its new leadership.

A new interim chairman and chief executive were appointed after Ms Robison intervened to demand changes amid a series of financial problems.

She said she was confident the new bosses would "make a difference" and get the board "back on track".

Read more.

NHS Scotland chief executive Paul Gray points out he wants to understand the root causes of the problems at NHS Tayside as he does not want to see it happen again.

SNP MSP Willie Coffey argues that the reports are likely to point at processes needing to be tightened up.

Mr Coffey asks if the current processes are effective enough.

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Mr Gray argues that the way to be certain of something going wrong is to not have systems in place.

He concedes there is not necessarily enough separation of endowment funds from board funds.

Things to be learned from NHS Tayside may have more general applicability, he says.

The NHS Scotland chief executive asks if there were signals he should have picked up on and tells MSPs he will take personal responsibility for that.

Convener Jenny Marra raises reports that internal auditors were threatened with losing their contract by speaking out.

Paul Gray responds: "Anyone who threatens anyone in the NHS is breaching the values of the NHS and the terms and conditions of their employment.

"If that has been done it is utterly wrong and completely unacceptable."

Mr Gray confirms that if it becomes clear pressure has been put in internal auditors, this will be dealt with.

Image source, SPL

The finance director of NHS Tayside retired in March as it was revealed the health board's funding gap was widening.

The board received a £33m "brokerage" loan from the Scottish government last year and was due to receive a further £4m before 1 April.

The Scottish government was informed that NHS Tayside's finances were likely to deteriorate further.

It was also told the Tayside director of finance Lindsay Bedford has decided to retire and will not return.

The Public Audit and Post-Legislative Scrutiny Committee received a letter from Paul Gray, the chief executive of NHS Scotland.

The letter explained: "I have been informed that the financial outturn of NHS Tayside for 2017-18 is likely to deteriorate further, arising from information we identified about the flow of £5.3m of eHealth funds via NHS National Services Scotland and the way in which they have been recorded within NHS Tayside accounts.

"I also note that the Tayside Director of Finance has decided to retire and will not return to the organisation."

Read more.

Image source, bbc

SNP MSP Colin Beattie argues: "We seem to have been throwing money at auditors."

Mr Beattie adds: "It all seems airy fairy to me."

He wants to know who did what, when, and where the responsibility lies.

NHS Scotland chief executive Paul Gray answers OSCR will deliver a report on the endowments scandal in NHS Tayside.

Mr Beattie probes about whether misreporting will be covered.

Mr Gray explains a document covering this could be provided.

Christine McLaughlin argues the Grant Thornton report outlines the involvement of the NSS.

Ms Marra says the OSCR report will be one of the key reports the committee receives, in terms of public interest.

SNP MSP Colin Beattie asks the current status of NHS Tayiside CEO Leslie McLay.

Mr Gray answers she is off sick, signed off by a doctor, and is not the accountable officer at the moment.

The convener expresses concern about the OSCR report, particularly on its timescale.

Mr Gray says: "Clearly I would like to see as much information as quickly as possible."

He assures the committee that he is in close contact with OSCR but emphasises he is unable to direct the organisation as it is an independent investigation.

NHS Scotland has offered additional resource to OSCR, the chief executive confirms.