Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf confirms his party will not support the Conservative motion but agrees to have a discussion with the Scottish Law Commission on the issue of undue leniency.

There has to be a nuance between leniency and undue lenience, he insists.

Mr Yousaf suggests Jenny Marra write to the Lord Advocate to demand an explanation on the issues she raised in her contribution.

The council are working on a number of guidelines on sentencing, including on death by driving and on sentencing young people, he states.

If members want the council to prioritise guidelines on sexual offence, it must mean de-prioritising something else he explains.

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Tory MSP Donald Cameron says MSPs can question the development of sentencing guidelines and the Scottish Sentencing Council has yet to publish any substantial guidelines.

A six year time lag since it was established is too long, says Mr Cameron, who argues the Council should prioritise guidelines and work faster.

He argues the test of undue leniency must be revisited, given it meant prosecutors could not challenge the case of Christopher Daniel.

"There are real issues with trust in our sentencing system."

He urges colleagues to support the Tory amendment as the high bar test of undue leniency must be revisited.

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Labour MSP Jenny Marra says she was shocked by the sentence passed down in the Christopher Daniel case, as were many members of the public.

She highlights confusion in the Scottish judiciary , externalover the sentencing statement from the case, as she has been told it has been removed in the last week as it was an absolute discharge, whereas a note from a case of rape from two years ago with an absolute discharge remains.

The Labour MSP says she is concerned at the lack of transparency here and the strange timing of the removal of the sentencing statement.

She calls on the cabinet secretary and the Lord Advocate to look into this.

The sentence appears to be completely down to Daniel's motivation and the impact on his career prospects, she points out, which she says is "astonishing".

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Lib Dem MSP Liam McArthur also references the absolute discharge of Christopher Daniel after sexually assaulting a six year old child.

This ruling does seem at odds to historical precedent, says Mr McArthur, although he accepts Mr Finnie's point that none of the MSPs sat through the entire case.

In terms of the Scottish Sentencing Council it does feel that progress has been slow, adds the Lib Dem MSP and he criticises the lack of guidelines on sentencing for sexual assault potentially until after 2021.

There is much more that needs to be done with some urgency to increase transparency and consistency, he concludes.

Green MSP John Finnie says he did put down an amendment for this debate, external focused on judicial training, though it was not accepted for debate.

He welcomes the domestic abuse legislation and suggests there needs to be more training on this.

We all want to see informed decision making based on evidence, Mr Finnie concludes.

Mr Kerr says: "It is vital prosecutors have the powers to appeal too lenient sentences."

The Tory MSP argues there is a role for politicians to ensure this and calls on MSPs to back his amendment.

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Tory MSP Liam Kerr says he was "horrified and baffled" by the sentence in the Christopher Daniel case.

The reasons for an absolute discharge can vary, he accepts, but none of these override the seriousness of this case.

"A young victim and her family have been let down by our justice system," he insists.

Mr Kerr questions the definition of "unduly lenient" and suggests this test is "overly restrictive".

Mr Yousaf concludes saying he cannot support the amendment from Tory MSP Liam Kerr.

He pledges to listen carefully to MSPs and respond top their points during his closing.

He moves his amendment.

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Mr Yousaf says it is for the courts to make decisions on sentencing and it is "absolutely right" that politicians do not interfere.

Labour MSP Jenny Marra agrees with this statement but insists politicians have a duty to question when a sentence is "out of kilter" with public expectation.

The justice secretary accepts accountability is separate from independence and courts can be held accountable.

He highlights the Sentencing Council recognises the desire to have guidelines sooner rather than later, but also the need to balance this with proper consideration.

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Victims and families are being let down by sentencing guidelines in Scotland, Scottish Labour has claimed.

The party’s justice spokesman Daniel Johnson suggested that changes should be made to the current system in order to create a clearer policy on sentences.

Mr Johnson said there is currently a lack of transparency over why certain sentencing decisions are made.

“The current sentencing system in Scotland is letting down victims and families,” said the Labour MSP.

Read more on STV., external

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Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf begins saying he agrees with much that Mr Johnson had to say.

He argues fairness must be at the heart of the justice system, for victims and those accused of crimes.

The justice secretary agrees that the Scottish Sentencing Council was introduced to produce guidelines and increase the understanding and raising awareness of sentencing.

Labour MSP Kezia Dugdale intervenes asking how the victim's voice is heard in the Sentencing Council, as she has read all three reports not and it is not mentioned once.

Mr Yousaf replies that the Scottish Sentencing Council always has a public consultation for guidelines it produces.

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Ministers have the power to request the Scottish Sentencing Council look into specific issues to see whether guidance is necessary, the Labour MSP highlights.

He notes as much as 80% of the work of the High Court relates to sexual offences.

For as long as we do not have guidance on these crimes, we will be letting the victims down Mr Johnson concludes.

According to STV News..., external

"Fresh calls have been made to review sentencing guidelines after a teenager walked free from court despite being found guilty of sexually assaulting a young girl.

"STV News revealed last month how dental student Christopher Daniel, 18, was found guilty of repeated sexual assaults on the girl while she was aged between six and eight, but was granted an "absolute discharge" by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair.

"The verdict at Dumbarton Sheriff Court means means Daniel, who was between 15 and 17 at the time of the crimes, will not be on the sex offenders register or have any criminal record.

"Scottish Labour are now demanding the sentencing guidelines for sexual assault are changed, particularly for young people."

The Labour MSP argues that is "cannot be right" that two individuals receive the same sentence for a different crime because of the "lottery of life".

Mr Johnson asks what the balance is between intent and outcome when considering the culpability of a crime, particularly in sexual assault.

He points out the answers to these questions are complex and judicial discretion and independence is vital, but a consistency of consideration too is vital.

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That's why the Scottish Sentencing Council was created, he points out.

Mr Johnson says the aims of the council are to promote consistency and awareness of sentencing.

"We have been discussing the need for sentencing guidelines for 25 years."

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Scotland's first sentencing guidelines for how courts deal with all offenders came into force in November.

The guidelines were approved by three senior judges in October.

The core principle of sentencing is stated to be "fairness and proportionality".

Lady Dorian, chairwoman of the Scottish Sentencing Council and Scotland's second most senior judge, said the guidelines would support consistency in sentencing and decision-making.

The approved document, external requires judges to consider the seriousness of the offence, the impact on the victim and others and the offender's circumstances.

Read more here.

Labour MSP Daniel Johnson says the justice system still have a distance to travel in both consistency and transparency.

He refers to the recent case regarding Christopher Daniel, who was given an absolute discharge despite being found guilty of sexual assault.

Mr Johnson says there are three important aspects which should be considered:

1. the circumstances and prospects of the accused
2. intention involved in the crime
3. outcome of that crime

Daniel Johnson will lead his party's second debate of the day, calling for more transparency on sentencing guidelines.

The Labour MSP will say it is unacceptable that sentencing guidelines for sexual assault won’t be available until after 2021.

Labour will ask Holyrood to vote on a motion deeming the delay unacceptable, and highlighting concerns over transparency and consistency in sentencing.

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Labour MSP Pauline McNeill says carers have confidence in RPI.

Far from being a trivial matter for a few hundred pounds, since 2010 carers have lost out on nearly £1,000 she says.

"Should we really be using a flawed system to support our carers," asks Kate Forbes.

Turning to criticism of Labour not asking for this change in the budget process, Ms McNeill queries why the government needed to be asked not to adopt the method used by George Osborne.

"You have a chance to reverse this and do the right thing," she concludes.

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Public Finance Minister Kate Forbes joins all the speakers in this debate by praising the work of carers and stresses the Scottish government has put more money into their pockets.

Ms Forbes insists "Labour's financial illiteracy is back", accusing the party of being wrong and unfair in its call to move back to RPI.

RPI is flawed according to the ONS and the experts have said it is more erratic than CPI, she states.

She points out last Thursday the budget was passed, but Labour never mentioned this issue then.