Flora Hamilton of CBI insists flexibility and wide scope is key to the bank growing the economy.

Matt Lancashire from SCDI says the objects of the bank are clear, but warns against exclusively looking at the type of investment set out in these.

Image source, Getty Images

Last May we reported that new Scottish National Investment Bank could be operational by 2019 and provide £2bn of investment in a decade, MSPs heard.

The Scottish government said the publicly-owned bank could potentially transform the economy.

It suggested it could help Scotland to become fairer and more prosperous.

But the Conservatives warned they would not support legislation to create the bank unless the government streamlines business support.

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Convener Gordon Lindhurst asks the panel if it is satisfied with the planned objects for the SNIB.

Helen Martin from the STUC says the ethical commitment must be upfront if we are to see the wider social benefits.

I wonder about the balance of the mission-orientated approach and where these missions fit in in terms of the core ethos of the bank, she adds.

Can you invest in things that don't fit the missions because they fit other economic priorities, she wonders.

The second panel comprises:

• Matt Lancashire from the SCDI, external
• Flora Hamilton of CBI, external
• Helen Martin from the Scottish Trades Union Congress, external

Image source, bbc

SNP MSP Colin Beattie pivots to ethical investments and asks about exclusions like on tobacco or greenhouse gas creators.

Should the SNIB go down that line, he asks.

Mr Alexander replies anything that does not improve Scottish society should not be invested in.

The Mydex CIC CEO asks: "Why would you support things that reduce public health?"

Exclusions would need to be set by ministers he adds and putting a block on investments should be possible.

"Why would you back anything that made things worse?"

Asked about recruiting the right staff and pay involved, David Alexander calls for it to be made clear that the bank will not offer eye-watering pay.

It's an illusion that people have to be paid tonnes of money to turn up he argues.

"You can find the talent. Scotland's got a lot to offer these people. So make your case."

Linda Hanna says a range of skills will be needed by the bank and it is important to set this out.

Mr Wightman ask about the need for the bank's mission to be to overcome inequality in its broadest sense, as equality is not mentioned in the bill at the moment.

Prof Cadenhead from Women's Enterprise Scotland tells the Green MSP: "I believe it's essential to create a balanced society with diversity of thought allowing everybody to be able to participate and contribute to economic growth.

"It needs to be enshrined in the bill."

The academic says there is a desperate need for a gendered enterprise index in Scotland to help track the statistics.

Linda Hanna says an obvious mission for the SNIB would be to build the low-carbon economy.

Prof Cadenhead emphasises the need for inclusive growth, pointing to disparity between female and male-led businesses as they growth despite being 50:50 at start-up.

She highlights that 1p in every £1 of investment goes towards female-led businesses and she insists the SNIB should transform funding opportunities for women.

Image source, bbc

Ms Hanna says she thinks the missions are set out in the bill.

Mr Wightman points out there is no scope for any debate on the missions laid out by the minister.

Mr Alexander says he does not know any private organisation that does not have a scorecard and if the mission of the bank is well laid out, it should be possible to report against those.

The board and governing body of the bank should be held accountable for its performance, he adds.

Green MSP Andy Wightman highlights the setting of the missions will not be subject to any parliamentary procedure at all.

Should they be scrutinised by parliament, he asks.

David Alexander says the mission should be tied to the objects as an implicit part of the bank.

So long as there is adequate time given to discussion on the mission and there is an opportunity for debate about them, they must "transcend parliament".

Otherwise it may end up becoming "a bit of football", he warns.

SNP MSP Gordon Macdonald asks why another model would be better than the PLC.

Mr Alexander says he thinks that's quite a weird question, as the bank should be a community interest model but it could become a PLC.

He wants to see a "mission locked bank" and not something that can be floated off to be sold at some other time.

"The travesty would be if this Scottish National Investment Bank ended up as another privately owned bank."

David Alexander says the long-term aim of the bank should be to transform the economy to it is more widely beneficial.

But that will not happen overnight and may take 15 years, he states.

Prof Cadenhead says if the SNIB is investing in higher risk projects, a three year loan will not be long enough.

Mr Alexander explains Mydex CIC is on a thirty year mission and it constantly comes up against problems with people not understanding it is aiming for transformative change.

Image source, Getty Images

Prof Cadenhead calls for diversity of thought on the advisory group from a gender and social background perspective.

SNP MSP John Mason asks if the chair of the advisory group was also on the SNIB board would be a conflict of interest.

The WES chair replies she would think it possibly does as it's simply an advisory group and it is up to the board if it takes that advice.

Ms Hanna says she thinks the advisory group is really important in terms of the missions to be defined over time and in terms of diversity and must bring independent thought.

The whole mission, vision and purpose is to improve Scotland, David Alexander.

He says opening it up to shares will end up with the financial sector only looking to make profit for shareholders.

"Be different, is what I would challenge the Bank."

Mr Alexander warns that the advisory group for the bank at the moment is at risk of "groupthink" because it is not drawing on a broad enough range of people and organisations.

Image source, bbc

Mr Alexander points to the example of removing form filling from a public service freeing up cash for front line services.

"It means you could do more with less."

At the moment these things are not being considered, adds the Mydex CIC CEO.

"We are constantly looking at removing friction, risk, effort and cost from transactions and services provided."

David Alexander says he would be wary of trying to centralise support, because each community is different.

Receiving advice from several different entities and joining the dots could lead to a "Venn diagram on steroids", he suggests.

Image source, Engender

Serious concerns about how the equality impact assessment for the Scots national investment bank have been raised by Engender, external.

The economy committee was told at a previous evidence session that the assessment was only published alongside the bill, despite there having been several consultations and announcements before then.

Eilidh Dickson, representing Engender, suggested the equality assessment will have to be redone.

She also said the lack of equalities and non-discrimination objectives won't lead to the radical change required.

Ms Hanna says the agencies are good on the ground at working with businesses and the lines for navigating through the system must be short.

The Scottish Enterprise representative adds customer experience is key in the package of support.

The expertise in the bank around equity and business loans will be very deep and must be accessed, she adds.

"It's about the whole system working."

David Alexander says demand will increase as soon as it is made clear the SNIB will serve the entire private sector, not just commercial firms.

This can include member organisations, social enterprises and others.

An increase in demand would require in an increase in resource, he adds.

"It talks commercial, it talks private sector" at the moment and there is uncertainty about who else could apply he says.