Image source, bbc

Tory MSP Finlay Carson pivots to the level of deposit, arguing the public will be able to deal with a variable fee.

He cites Finland's four varying levels of deposit, which they are coping with.

Rick Hindley from Alupro replies he is acutely aware of and very concerned about this issue.

Two thirds of people would upsize from multi-pack cans into two liter plastic bottles, which would potentially lead to 8.2m additional plastic bottles being sold in Scotland he explains.

He insists there is absolutely no reason a Scottish consumer would be different from a Scandinavian one and could deal with variable rates.

Rick Handley says Alupro would support a higher deposit for large bottles, with 20p being the baseline for the smallest containers.

Tory MSP Finlay Carson expresses concern about rural consumers paying disproportionately more because they may use kerbside recycling instead of travelling 15 miles to a retailer.

Rick Handley from Alupro points to a survey which found one in five people who will be prepared to lose their deposit if returning containers is not convenient.

We can't assume everyone is going to be motivated to take part in the system, he adds.

Ms Love argues generally most businesses would want to provide this service and participate in the DRS scheme, but some will need support.

The FSB representative suggests small businesses under 200 square feet should be exempt.

Dr John Lee suggests it does not seem like a scheme administrator will exist any time soon and retailers are being asked to take a "leap of faith" that things like collection apps will be put in place.

There are no guarantees we would have measures other countries have to make manual take back work, he adds.

Handling fees should cover the lost selling space taking up by a reverse vending machine, staff time and maintenance of machines he argues.

Jenni Hume of Have You Got The Bottle suggests the following exemptions:

• very small retailers should be able to apply for partial exemptions
• retailers who don't sell alcohol for religious reasons should be exempt from taking alcohol bottles
• online producers selling small amounts should have possibility of exemption

However she does believe larger online producers should be included in the DRS scheme.

Samantha Harding from Reloop Platform says the return to retail model is critical for DRS to succeed.

Ewan MacDonald-Russell says the SRC is confident that larger stores will be able to adopt changes if given time.

But there are concerns about costs for online businesses, particularly those that rely on third party courier services, he adds.

Edward Woodall insists more thought must be given to the cost of manual handling and suggests getting competitors into a room together to agree how this works will be challenging.

Image source, bbc

Susan Love from the Federation of Small Businesses says her organisation believes a return to retailer model works well, but a large number of small businesses will have difficulties with the scheme.

Ms Love points out sandwich bars and cappuccino vans should be exempted as they have no storage space.

She says her concern is the onus is on small businesses to come up with an alternative return point which is unsustainable.

There is a role for the scheme administrator to broker deals for small businesses with bigger retailers, she adds.

Ms Love calls for a "reasonable refusal exemption" so a small business can say no if a customer arrives which more bottles than a store has capacity for, however she adds the exemptions at the moment are "exceptionally vague".

Edward Woodall of the Association of Convenience Stores welcomes regulations around proximity but suggests these could be clearer.

Capacity and demand of convenience stores should be factored in, he argues, as 60% of independent retailers in Scotland are less than 1,000 square feet.

He points to lottery terminals as an example, where Camelot has taken the approach of assessing demand in areas and strategically placing them.

SNP MSP Angus Macdonald moves on to the return to retailer model and asks about its impact on small retailers.

Dr John Lee from the Scottish Grocers Federation replies his organisation has been supportive of the return to retailer model as "the only show in town".

Most small retailers want to participate, he reiterates, suggesting an automated take back system.

Samantha Harding says the government should retain the opportunity to set the deposit level.

Jim Fox from the Food and Drink Federation Scotland disagrees, suggesting scheme administrators should set deposit levels but insist they meet targets set by government.

Ewan MacDonald-Russell says the SRC is more relaxed about the government setting the starting rate because it ensures consistency.

"If I'm quite candid, so my store colleagues aren't the ones that have to deal with irate customers and we can blame it on the government," he adds.

Image source, bbc

Richard Hands of Alliance for Beverage Cartons and the Environment (ACE) UK says his organisation welcomes the introduction of a DRS but he thinks it could go further.

Mr Hands says beverage cartons are currently excluded and he argues against this.

The cartons are recyclable but this is done inconsistently, he adds, and he calls for a trial of all materials.

Jenni Hume says there are no up to date litter surveys comparing before and after for countries which have introduced DRS.

We are encouraging the government to look further in this, she adds.

Tory MSP Finlay Carson wonders about the inclusion of other materials in the future.

Ms Hume says this should be possible, with the agreement of producers, without the need for statutory instruments.

Jonathan Marshall tells the committee: "The danger here is we could be adding cost."

British Glass believes DRS will dramatically increase the cost and it will end up not achieving the targets needed for glass, he explains.

There is also a debate about the carbon footprint and CO2 production, he adds.

Jonathan Marshall from British Glass says DRS will increase the amount of glass sent for recycling, but the majority of it will be green and amber glass.

He warns that DRS will therefore undermine glass recycling in Scotland, as Scottish glass production focuses on clear glass.

Image source, Getty Images

Introducing a deposit return scheme in Scotland could inadvertently lead to 823 million extra plastic bottles being produced, research has warned.

Alupro, the Aluminium Packaging Recycling Organisation, said a flat deposit of 20p could result in consumers purchasing plastic bottles instead of aluminium cans.

This is because a multipack of cans would have a higher deposit than larger plastic bottles containing the same amount of liquid in total.

A survey conducted by the organisation found people were more likely to buy the cheaper option, even if the planned deposit was halved to 10p.

• Read more here

• Scotland's bottle return scheme deposit to be set at 20p

• Experts cast doubt on deposit return timetable

Image source, bbc

Rick Hindley from Alupro says the current aluminium drinks cans recycling rate for last year is 75% across the UK.

He explains there are no Scottish specific figures, but there is no reason to believe it would be different from the UK wide figures.

If the DRS goes in it is really important to have an accurate baseline recycling rate number and he questions the data being used by Zero Waste Scotland.

Samantha Harding from Reloop Platform says the costs of the system will be met by producers, not retailers.

Glass absolutely has to be part of the system, she insists.

She warns that if we are excluding containers on unfounded concerns, we risk consumer confusion and convenience - and she points to Latvia as an example who had to go back and retrofit for glass.

Image source, bbc

We have quite serious concerns operationally in terms of glass, says Dr John Lee.

The Scottish Grocers Federation representative warns this will be challenging fro small retailers which is "extremely concerning".

He insists small retailers do want to be involved, however the inclusion of glass makes that much, much more challenging.