Dr Scott says she backs Children 1st's amendment relating to confidentiality.

The Scottish Women's Aid chief executive says she cannot imagine anything more soul destroying for a child than to have the difficult work they have done with a court be turned around and used against them.

"Children's interests must be paramount," Dr Scott adds, which is echoed by Fiona McMullen who cites the importance of a consistent trusted children's support worker.

Fiona McMullen says managing risk and safety is important throughout the process, highlighting some children will be "terrified" of giving their views.

Dr Scott says children giving evidence is "a process and not an event", hence the need for them to have a relationship with an advocate.

SNP MSP Bill Kidd seeks views on children being told about outcomes.

Ms McMullen explains ASSIST currently provides children with a debrief in criminal cases to ensure the children understands the outcome and acknowledge them participating in the process.

Dr Scott agrees the number of cases where it would not be appropriate to share outcomes would be small.

She adds she has some sympathy with the burden on the judiciary but that must be addressed in a way that does not minimise the rights of children to hear the outcomes of a case.

Image source, Getty Images

According to a SPICe briefing on the Children (Scotland) Bill..., external

"The Bill would make some important reforms. It aims to encourage the court to hear the views of younger children (under 12s) before reaching its decision. It would require courts to explain (most) court decisions to (most) children.

"The Bill would also introduce practical measures to improve the experience of vulnerable people in the courtroom, such as parents affected by domestic abuse.

"The welfare of the child, as the paramount consideration, is a key principle of the 1995 Act which the courts apply. The Bill would introduce two new statutory factors to guide the court's assessment of welfare in an individual case."

Mr Finnie asks about the tension between civil and criminal proceedings, and whether there is a growing gap in provision.

Dr Scott replies she does not think this bill, even if crafted absolutely perfectly, would solve the gap between criminal and civil cases, adding she is less optimistic about what is happening in the criminal courts.

She says children should be considered as co-victims in terms of domestic abuse, something her organisation pressed to be included in the Domestic Abuse Act.

Adequate advocacy services would be the best first action we can take to address the gap, she says.

Fiona McMullen from ASSIST says many children find the civil court more adversarial than the criminal court.

We must routinely be asking children for views, she argues, adding even three year olds will be able to voice an opinion.

She recommends advocacy services being more available to support children throughout the entire process and proactively gather views.

Dr Scott concurs, pointing to a lack of access in remote and rural areas of Scotland.

Image source, bbc

Green MSP John Finnie asks about the proposal to remove the 12+ presumption and what the new presumption should look like.

Dr Marsha Scott says the feeling from Scottish Women's Aid is that the presumption is a problem because it is not evidence based on a child's capacity to participate in the courts proceedings.

"We are definitely in favour of a presumption that children will engage."

She calls for protections and presumptions that children will be involved, adding the lack of infrastructure is a "terrible problem".

Image source, Getty Images

Proposed new laws to improve the experience of children involved in family courts have been published by the Scottish government.

The Children (Scotland) Bill, external follows a consultation which took into account the views of young people.

Ministers say they want to ensure the justice system does not contribute to young people's distress.

Campaigners said the legislation was "vital" for child victims of domestic abuse.

The proposals are intended to update the 1995 Children Act, to reflect changes within modern families.

Read more.

The second session will focus on the views of domestic abuse organisations:

• Fiona McMullen from ASSIST, external
• Dr Marsha Scott from Scottish Women's Aid, external

Rona Mackay asks about the section of the bill designed to promote continued contact between looked after children who are siblings.

Megan Farr broadly welcomes it but says there are some concerns about the complexity of families and whether it will include half siblings or step siblings for example.

There is also a concern around ensuring councils have adequate resources to facilitate contact between siblings, she adds.

Ms Barratt says contact with siblings can be very important but she opposes a presumption, instead calling for it so be considered on a case by case basis.

Continued contact may not be suitable for all siblings, she explains.

Ms Riddell says there are often very good reasons for non-compliance with contact orders and the ability for the courts to look at this more would be really welcome.

She says forced contact can be damaging for the child and indeed both parents.

Megan Farr's biggest concern is when sanctions are applied when there are genuine reasons like sickness for non-compliance.

Ms Barrett concurs and reiterates that if the views of the child are properly heard then the contact orders are more likely to work.

Ms Riddell insists more investment in contact centres now will lead to savings in the long-run because fewer children will be traumatised.

A child must be afforded the same protections in child hearings as they are in the courts, says Megan Farr.

Chloe Riddell says it will be rare for children to attend civil courts but protection measures will be particularly important for domestic abuse victims.

Special measures must take account of the whole court experience, Ms Riddell adds, pointing to cases where a domestic abuse victim will see their abuser around the court building and will only be separated from them by a screen in the actual courtroom.

Image source, bbc

Ms Barrett says how wider legal systems interact must be looked at.

She points out in the children's hearings system there is a compulsion for children to attend, which is a complete lack of synergy with the goals of this bill.

In the criminal system we are trying to remove children from courts, however in children's hearing we are compelling them to attend, often in the same room with someone who has caused them harm, adds Ms Barratt.

Very young people are being forced to attend hearings that are detrimental to their welfare, she says.

"We also need to look at our children's hearing system."

She calls for coherence between the approach of the criminal and civil courts and the children's hearings system.

Image source, Getty Images

Under the new legislation, child welfare reporters, who may be appointed when the court has been asked to resolve a dispute between parents, would be regulated.

This would ensure reporters are trained to understand and respond to issues such as domestic abuse and coercive control.

The Scottish government said other improvements include prohibiting a party from conducting their own case if there was a vulnerable witness.

Campaigners have welcomed the publication of the bill.

Chloe Riddell says more resources are required for child contact centres to ensure they are more welcoming for families.

It is also important professionals supervising contact are alert to how contact is often used to perpetuate domestic abuse, she adds.

Ms Riddell says it is important to regulate contact centres but there are also discussions to be had on when they are appropriate.

Image source, bbc

SNP MSP Shona Robison asks what the key features of any regulatory regime for child welfare reporters and curators ad litem should be.

A curator ad litem is a legal representative in Scots law appointed by a court to represent, during legal proceedings, the best interests of a person who lacks the mental capacity to make decisions for themselves.

"We support the regulation of court welfare reporters," replies Ms Barrett.

She questions whether the skill set of lawyers is good enough and expresses concerns about biases in favour of them over social workers.

The ability to work with children should be paramount, she adds.

Ms Farr also supports regulation and calls for flexibility to be built into the legislation.

Ms Riddell says the child welfare reporter plays such a vital role and therefore must be invested in and a significant amount of training must be undertaken.

Megan Farr highlights children may have a range of adults they have a close relationship with and have a right to continue such relationships where it is in their best interests.

However she warns about creating a list of who these adults could be as this could become restrictive - for example some adults with whom children have a relationship may not be family.

Joanna Barrett agrees NSPCC does not support putting presumption about extended family into primary legislation for similar reasons.

Ms Riddell explains no service can guarantee complete confidentiality, but what is shared with the court must be relevant.

She warns against entire case files being shared.

Chloe Riddell tells the committee of one case where confidential information held by Children 1st was revealed to the court in its entirety.

This opens up concerns about such information being revealed to potential perpetrators of abuse, she explains.

She calls for checks and balances to ensure confidentiality measures are proportionate and to allow children to input into this as well.

A clear framework in primary legislation would put children's best interests and their voices right at the centre, Ms Riddell argues.

Image source, bbc

Lib Dem MSP Liam McArthur asks about navigating the balance between the interests and rights of adults and the interests and best rights of children.

Ms Farr says a child's right to privacy is very important and a child's welfare may be put at risk if entire files are shared.

A balance needs to be struck, adds the Children and Young People's Commissioner Scotland representative.

She says requests for entire files should not happen, rather specific requests for information should be submitted.