SNP MSP Keith Brown asks about research into the lack of uptake.

Ms Farrington confirms the DWP intends to publish data on the uptake of Universal Credit as soon as it is able to present statistically significant data.

She highlights various reasons people give about not applying for benefits, ranging from those who thought they would get a job quickly or a lack of information about the system.

Mr Brown also points to cultural barriers around people claiming what they do not feel entitled to themselves.

Mr Allan says there seemed to be quite a lot of concern expressed in the last session about the lack of data sharing and lack of referrals.

"Is that a criticism you would recognise?"

Mr Kilday says: "It's not something I would recognise. Where there is a legal protocol to do so, we will do that."

Andrew Latto says the DWP is not going to turn anything off until the Scottish government is ready to turn things on.

"We're working very, very closely with the Scottish government on all levels."

"We put the citizen at the heart of everything we do," adds Mr Kilday.

Universal credit is a benefit for working-age people, replacing six benefits and merging them into one payment:

• income support
• income-based jobseeker's allowance
• income-related employment and support allowance
• housing benefit
• child tax credit
• working tax credit

It was designed to make claiming benefits simpler.

SNP MSP Alasdair Allan raises evidence from the previous witnesses which recommended focusing on local authorities because we would be "waiting a while" for the DWP or UK government to respond.

The benefits being devolved are an opportunity and it will be interesting to see how those are developed, replies Ms Farrington.

I do not recognise the "caricature" of the DWP being "closed and not very helpful," she insists.

But she accepts things can be made simpler and easier within one organisation.

Image source, PA

Labour leadership hopeful Lisa Nandy has said the principle of Universal Credit - the major reform to simplify the benefits system - was "the right one", but criticised cuts and a lack of support for claimants.

Universal Credit was introduced by the Conservative-led coalition government in 2010, but has proved controversial almost from the beginning.

Cuts to UC since it was announced have made the overall system significantly less generous.

For example, the work allowance has been cut so people can earn a smaller amount of money before their benefit payments start to reduce.

Low pay charity the Resolution Foundation warned that these kind of cuts may weaken the benefit's main purpose - to make sure people always feel it's worthwhile to work more hours.

There have also been concerns over how long new claimants have to wait before receiving the benefit.

Read more here.

Katie Farrington insists the DWP has a good relationship with the Scottish government.

Where there are differences, we do have a mechanism to discuss and resolve issues she adds.

Labour MSP Mark Griffin asks what improvements has Universal Credit had in terms of uptake.

Ms Farrington says the big benefit is bringing six legacy benefits together, meaning all entitlements come together.

"I believe the experience to be actually pretty good on the ground."

Mr Griffin presses for an answer to what the improvement in uptake has been, however Mr Kilday says that data is not available.

Ms Johnstone says there are people for whom the system is very complex and quite difficult to engage with.

The Green MSP says the system must be made as simple as it needs to be.

She asks what the DWP strategy for increasing uptake is, citing the Scottish government strategy.

Ms Farrington replies we don't have an equivalent strategy but there are number of common threads between what the Scottish government and DWP want to achieve.

She says UC has been designed to be simple and she says the DWP is continuing to try to improve it.

Green MSP Alison Johnstone raises the underpayment of disability benefits, particularly those due to claimant error.

What can the DWP do to help prevent this, she asks.

Andrew Latto says in future this will be a devolved area and will therefore be a matter for Scottish ministers.

I would imagine much of this issue is people not getting as a high a rate as they should be because they have not told us about a change in circumstances, he explains.

We are reliant on the claimant telling us about any change and the best we can do here is informing people what a change of circumstance means, Mr Latto says.

He also accepts that there are issues around people fearing their benefits will be cut if they get in touch with the DWP.

Labour MSP Pauline McNeill says there is a closing down of sharing information in public institutions at a basic level.

Ms Farrington replies: "There is a fear of data sharing."

The DWP representative says given that a number of benefits are being devolved to Scotland the question becomes what is right for the Scottish government to do.

Mr Latto points out primary legislation was used at Westminster to match Pension Credit and energy suppliers to generate a discount.

Automating between the benefits system is one thing but there are gradations about the sensitivity around the data, he elucidates.

Asked about data sharing by Tory MSP Jeremy Balfour, Ms Farrington says: "I don't perceive that we are overcautious about this."

She says people will have expectations and them ticking a box to consent to information being shared puts us on a better footing than "arbitrarily" sharing it.

Andrew Latto adds there are checks made within the system.

He says there are some things the DWP cannot automate but we can encourage discussions within couples, for example on whether to claim the severe disability premium or carers' allowance.

Mr Balfour says he has never had anyone get in touch with him about claiming carers' allowance.

Ms Robison says there is stigma around Universal Credit generally.

The SNP MSP asks how the DWP can make sure people are not discouraged from applying for it.

Katie Farrington replies this is key and cites the importance of putting out clear information about what UC is and who is entitled to it.

She says the DWP has been working with Citizens' Advice, schools and jobcentres on this issue.

Derek Kilday outlines DWP efforts to address issues that arise from the rurality of Scotland.

Mr Doris asks about an "unintended consequence" of housing benefit for pensioners being brought together with Pension Credit.

More older people receive housing support than currently claim Pension Credit.

Andrew Latto says if all pensioners in poverty claimed what they are entitled to, it would reduce poverty to "almost zero".

Bringing housing benefit and Pension Credit together increases the opportunity to boost take-up, he suggests.

But people are put off claiming for Pension Credit due to what they see as obtrusive questions about what it in their bank account, Mr Latto accepts.

Image source, bbc

Bob Doris begins by asking about Pension Credit, pointing out only 62% of those eligible are picking it up.

Does the DWP know who the 38% of the estimated cohort of pensioners who are not taking up the benefit are.

Andrew Latto replies no, as they don't have that data, and adds the DWP conducted a pilot with Age UK on this issue and will work with Age Scotland going forward.

The DWP representative says the BBC sending over 400,000 pensioners a letter about having to pay the licence fee if they don't receive Pensions Credit will be helpful as it will lead to a lot of calls to the DWP.

Derek Kilday from the DWP says the department approaches people approaching pension age regarding Pension Credit.

For those of working age the majority of claimants come to us through Universal Credit claims, he adds.

The DWP has worked closely with the Scottish government in carers' allowance and will continue this work as other benefits are devolved, Mr Kilday explains.

The DWP representative says access to services must be as straight forward as possible.

Image source, bbc

Committee convener Bob Doris now welcomes:

• Katie Farrington the director of Universal Credit and employment policy with theDWP, external
• Andrew Latto, the deputy director of devolution, pensioner benefits and Carer’s Allowance Policy, with the DWP
• Derek Kilday, the group director for Central and West Scotland with the DWP

Here's the papers for the committee, external

More information on the inquiry can be found here, external

SNP MSP Alasdair Allan asks where the balance lies between powers held by this parliament and the UK government.

"That's a tricky one as clearly the big guns lie with Westminster," replies Mr Gardner.

He suggests the focus should be on the devolved benefits, as "virtually no-one has major, major influence" in terms of the data of the DWP.

Ms Murphy stresses the importance of eligibility criteria and says in terms of disability more nuanced criteria is required.

There should be more linkage throughout the system to mean short term campaigns to boost income are not needed, argues Megan Mclean.

Phil Agulnik says the typical model is people claiming a DWP benefit and others flowing from this, but it does not always happen like this.

He suggests forms should include questions at the end to ask about other benefits which allows agencies to pass on information.

Ms Mclean adds hesitation to pursue further benefits may also highlight where an adviser could be more helpful, for example where households lack confidence with digital forms.