The topic of whatsapp messages has been a constant theme of this inquiry - and this morning was no different.
It was Wales' former Health Minister Vaughan Gething yesterday and his successor Eluned Morgan today - and she was unable to provide all of her messages as some had been deleted.
Morgan said earlier that “no decisions were made on WhatsApp” and said many of those that had been deleted had been provided to the inquiry by other people in the conversation.
"There were only a couple of examples where that happened and you have the information that was within them," she adds.
Morgan states she "didn't delete any deliberately" but doesn't "know quite why or when" they went missing and expressed sadness that not all were available.
ReutersCopyright: Reuters
Analysis
'People in Wales felt like second-class citizens'
Hywel Griffith
BBC News' Wales Correspondent
UK Covid-19 InquiryCopyright: UK Covid-19 Inquiry
We heard earlier how people in Wales felt like “second class citizens” after the UK Government turned down a request to help fund a two week “firebreak” lockdown in October 2020.
Labour’s Baroness Eluned Morgan, Wales' current health minister, said the cabinet in Cardiff had made a “brave decision” in introducing its own short autumn lockdown following scientific advice calling for a “circuit-breaker”.
However, she said she was “really disappointed” by the Treasury’s refusal to fund furlough payments - especially when financial support as then made available when England later went into its own lockdown.
“What was suitable for them was not suitable for us two weeks earlier,” Morgan told the inquiry. "That was a huge disappointment”.
“I think that was a very difficult time for us as a nation because people felt like we were second-class citizens in the context of the UK government."
Inquiry chair Baroness Hallett pointed out that there was a “different side to that debate”, which she had heard in previous evidence.
What did Welsh government learn about care homes?
While the inquiry is on lunch, we'll go back to this morning's evidence when the Covid bereaved families group asked Wales' health minister if the government made mistakes in relation to care homes.
Eluned Morgan says
that she “tried to learn some lessons” when the Omicron Covid variant emerged, in particular “trying to tighten guidelines around
people who visited multiple sites” in order to curb transmission.
Pressed on
whether lessons surrounding testing and admission to care homes from hospitals had
been learned, she adds: “At the beginning of the pandemic, there may have been
issues in relation to the testing opportunities. That was not true later on in
the pandemic.”
BBCCopyright: BBC
Your lunchtime digest
It’s lunchtime. We’ve got an hour until the inquiry resumes - here are the key lines:
First up was health minister Eluned Morgan:
Slow off the mark: Morgan admitted Wales should have been more prepared for the pandemic and that the first lockdown should have come about a week sooner
Cautious approach: And later, she said the Welsh government's approach to the pandemic was to "err on the side of caution”
Bus loads of pensioners: Morgan told of concerns among ministers about Wales being used as a "place to escape” - with the inquiry shown a message she sent to Mark Drakeford urging him to discourage the “bus loads” of people entering the country
Second-class citizens: She also said the issue of finance during a "firebreak" in October 2020 left many in Wales feeling like "second-class citizens”
Hopeless Hancock?: An excerpt from Morgan’s notebook was shown, in which she wrote "is Matt Hancock hopeless?" She told the inquiry “it would have made sense in terms of the timing”
Next came Rebecca Evans - minister for finance and local government.
Variable talks: Evans said the UK government failed to recognise the important role of the Welsh government in Wales’ finances, adding the quality of meetings with her counterparts was “variable”
Star chamber: She also said that some of her ministerial colleagues were uneasy with the establishment of a “star chamber” to run Wales’ financial response to the pandemic
Eat Out to Help Out: Evans hit back at then-chancellor Rishi Sunak's claim that Wales did not opt out of the August 2020 scheme, saying there was no mechanism to allow Wales to do so
No rhyme or reason: Later, she said there was no "rhyme or reason" for the UK government denying, then later allowing, the Welsh government "full access" to the £350m Welsh reserve
'Wales couldn't opt out of Eat Out to Help Out'
PA MediaCopyright: PA Media
The then Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak places an Eat Out to Help Out sticker in the window of a businessImage caption: The then Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak places an Eat Out to Help Out sticker in the window of a business
Rebecca Evans is asked about the “Eat Out to Help Out” scheme in August 2020 - launched by then chancellor and now prime minister Rishi Sunak, aimed at boosting the hospitality industry’s recovering after lockdown.
Wales' finance minister says she noted the prime minister’s evidence to the inquiry when he said Wales did not ask to opt out of the scheme.
“That’s a curious thing to say because there’s no mechanism within the devolution settlement for us to opt in or opt out of UK government programmes or decisions," she tells the inquiry.
"Devolution would look very different if we were able to opt in or out of choices the UK government makes.”
She says that although the scheme was popular with businesses in Wales, it was a UK scheme.
'No rhyme or reason' for financial barriers
Evans says
the additional funding which came to Wales in the 2020-21 financial year was “huge” - at £5.2 billion.
But it was
the Barnett Guarantee – which made sure consequential funding given to Wales
for spending by the UK government elsewhere didn’t fall below a certain level – that was crucial.
“When that
arrived, it was very useful,” Wales' finance minister tells the inquiry.
“It should
have happened earlier. It was definitely a huge step forward but even more
clarity was needed.”
She says it didn’t impact the big decisions being made, but it meant they were carrying big risks, which was a “very, very uncomfortable place to be”.
Asked what
clarity she was seeking, Evans says she was asking for more frequent sharing of
reconciliation data, carrying money over to a new financial year and
whether Wales could increase borrowing.
She also
says the Welsh government asked to have “full access” to the Welsh reserve,
worth £350m, but this was denied during the pandemic. It was then agreed in
this financial year due to the cost of living crisis.
“There doesn’t
seem to be any rhyme or reason,” she says.
Wales' help for businesses was to 'bridge gap'
Evans is
asked about a Covid business support scheme called the Economic Resilience Fund (ERF) - which was first
announced by the Welsh government in 2020.
Wales' finance minister tells the inquiry that the
economy minister oversaw the scheme, but her role was primarily “ensuring the
interventions were affordable to the Welsh government”.
Evans says the
funding was meant to “bridge the gap” for businesses in terms of what they
needed versus what they could access through UK government funding.
But, when
looking at funding decisions, consideration was always given to whether
furlough or a UK-led option could be utilised.
“We were
very careful to do that,” Evans says.
Some ministers 'uneasy' about Covid finance plan
Rebecca Evans explains how a “star chamber” worked to run Wales' financial response to the pandemic, giving advice to the finance minister on fiscal matters.
It met every day at one point and then twice-weekly until October 2020. The membership was made up of officials, special advisers and Evans and another minister.
Quarter of a billion pounds was reprioritised from within the Welsh government to go into the Covid response reserve.
Wales' finance minister tells the inquiry they set some principles for reprioritising – and it had to protect key existing commitments, “life and limb” and statutory obligations.
She says some colleagues were uneasy about the star chamber approach, whch was understandable as it was different to how government usually operated.
Ms Evans also set up a dashboard so ministers could see the latest financial position, sources of funding and the key areas where spending was going.
Finance minister didn't approve all Covid spending
Evans is asked if she had to approve all changes to spending priorities in Wales made as a result of the pandemic - and replies that she didn't.
"I allowed colleagues to re-prioritise within their own budgets," she says, citing the then-education minister Kirsty Williams' ability to purchase IT equipment for school children who needed it to learn from home.
"I just needed to be informed of those choices that were being made, I didn't need to approve them."
Getty ImagesCopyright: Getty Images
Money discussions with UK government 'variable'
Rebecca Evans tells the inquiry the UK government failed to recognise the
important role of the Welsh government in Wales’ finances.
“The UK
government, I don’t think realise that we are responsible to the Senedd”, says Wales' finance minister, referencing the “incredible amount of scrutiny” from the
Welsh public in general on Wales-specific financial decisions.
“By treating
us like another UK government department, there’s no recognition of the unique
role we have and the fact we are a government," Evans tells the inquiry
She says she was focused on managing Welsh
government’s financial response to the pandemic.
There were meetings with other UK finance
ministers and they met more frequently than before the pandemic, although the
quality of meetings was “variable”.
“Over the course of the pandemic, we met
around six times in the first six months,” Evans says.
Analysis
Was there a turning point in Wales' cautious Covid approach?
Daniel Davies
BBC Wales political correspondent
Wales' health minister Eluned Morgan said earlier this morning that led by a politician of “incredible integrity”, the Welsh Government was deliberately cautious.
Restrictions were eased more slowly in Wales than the rest of the UK – and while Morgan says First Minister Mark Drakeford’s Cabinet didn’t deliberately plot a route out of lockdown in comparison to the other nations, their cautious decisions “seemed to chime with the people of Wales”.
But previous hearings have reminded us things were different earlier in the pandemic.
Other UK administrations acted quicker to advise against mass gatherings, test people in care homes and make face masks compulsory in 2020.
Wales' finance minister takes the stand
Rebecca Evans is next after Eluned Morgan to face the inquiry.
She has been minister for finance since 2018, as well as minister for local government from 2021.
Decisions over money, particularly in the post-Covid recession period, have come under her remit, as well as liaising with local authorities over their resources and spending.
Eluned Morgan has finished giving evidence to the inquiry now - but earlier she spoke about the opening up of hospitality venues in the summer of 2021, in line with the
roll-out of vaccination passes.
“I think it was difficult to ask
people to limit their contacts if you were still allowing people to gather in
significant numbers," she tells the inquiry.
Specifically
addressing the issue of nightclubs, Morgan says there were numerous questions.
Firstly,
what was a nightclub? Did it include bars where people could dance?
Secondly,
the issues of borders, with people likely to travel to places like Bristol and Chester to
attend venues if they could not access them in Wales.
And finally,
whether regulations on nightclubs would “displace activity into unregulated
house parties”.
Morgan says
it was a question of “balancing” these elements.
David PageCopyright: David Page
There were no mandated capacity limits when nightclubs reopened in the summer of 2021Image caption: There were no mandated capacity limits when nightclubs reopened in the summer of 2021
'Is Matt Hancock hopeless?'
Steve Duffy
BBC Wales
UK Covid-19 InquiryCopyright: UK Covid-19 Inquiry
Excerpts from Morgan's notebook are shown to the inquiryImage caption: Excerpts from Morgan's notebook are shown to the inquiry
The inquiry is shown notes from Morgan, in which she writes "is Matt Hancock hopeless?".
Another entry reads: “Prime Minister – Chaos”.
She is then asked whether the remarks jotted down were linked to text messages published in June 2021 by former Downing Street adviser Dominic Cummings, in which then-Prime Minister Boris Johnson criticised the approach from those in Cabinet during the pandemic.
"I'm guessing it must have been and it would have made sense in terms of the timing," Morgan replies.
She adds that those notes would be "more political in nature", something she would show to her political group - and the notes aided her in remembering what was happening at the time.
Another
entry relates to a meeting, when Morgan was not invited and learnt of
“English moves” via the media, in what she describes as a “wholly unsatisfactory situation.”
She
tells the inquiry Welsh ministers were being invited to meetings very late and being given information
“sometimes minutes before.”
Morgan adds she was concerned in one meeting
that she was a
“lone voice” and the majority would come out against the public health
position when it came to tourism.
Ministers were clear on Covid rules
Ok, the inquiry is back after its morning cuppa and Wales' health minister is back on the stand.
Before the break, we were shown messages between various ministers in the summer of 2020, asking each other
to confirm regulations surrounding travelling to different counties within
Wales for day trips or recreational activities.
Asked whether
there was a lack of “clarity” in the rules, causing confusion even among
ministers, Eluned Morgan argues her colleagues were “just trying to take shortcuts to gather
information”.
“I think the
clarity was probably there in the regulations but quite often people wanted us
to read the regulations for them," she says.
“We spent a
huge amount of time talking to stakeholders about those regulations, so I’m not
sure that is fair [to suggest we were confused].”
What we've heard so far this morning
UK Covid-19 InquiryCopyright: UK Covid-19 Inquiry
And with that, the inquiry is breaking for morning tea. If you're just joining us, Eluned Morgan, who took over as health minister in May 2021, has been on the witness stand. Here are some of the key moments from her testimony:
She conceded the Welsh government should have been more prepared for the pandemic
As Wales recorded its first Covid case on 28 February 2020, Morgan travelled to Canada, USA and Ireland as the minister responsible for promoting Wales abroad
Morgan said it was unclear what legal powers the government had to stop people entering Wales - and there were concerns among ministers about the country being used as a "place to escape"
The government's approach to the pandemic was to "err on the side of caution"
She rejected suggestions the government did not give enough focus to mental health
Wales was left feeling like "second class citizens", Morgan said, because the UK government was "not forthcoming" with financial assistance during the firebreak lockdown of October 2020
'Mental health service always considered essential'
Morgan was appointed to a newly created position during the pandemic in October 2020, that of the minister of mental health wellbeing.
She is asked if mental health may not have been given enough focus by the Welsh government during the pandemic.
"No, I don't accept that. I know that mental health was always considered an essential service," Morgan tells the inquiry.
"We take mental health very seriously in Wales. There were concerns that fewer people were being directed to mental health services, we saw that there were more self-referrals.
"We were very aware that there were people who were struggling."
‘Wales felt like second-class citizens in the UK’
Discussing
the firebreak lockdown of October 2020, Morgan says Wales was keen to see if local restrictions were working first, as it would be "brave" to act ahead of England.
But the Welsh health minster said she feels Wales was left feeling like
“second class citizens”.
“We were
really concerned about the financial ability of the Welsh government… we did
not have the economic power,” she tells the inquiry about Wales' plea to the UK government
for support.
“It was
really disappointing that the UK government were not forthcoming when it came
to the financial side.”
Morgan says
frustrations grew when, two weeks later, the UK government announced its own lockdown
for England.
“I think
that was a very difficult time for us as a nation because people felt like we
were second-class citizens in the context of the UK government," she says.
But Baroness
Hallett tells the inquiry there is “another side to that debate” as the inquiry had
heard evidence that this was not the UK government's approach.
Video content
Video caption: Watch how Wales' Covid case rate changed around the autumn 2020 firebreak lockdownWatch how Wales' Covid case rate changed around the autumn 2020 firebreak lockdown
Analysis
Was Wales' cautious Covid approach the right one?
Owain Clarke
BBC Wales Health Correspondent
In her written evidence Eluned Morgan talks about the Welsh government being "deliberately cautious" on Covid restrictions.
It meant Wales was slower than England, Northern Ireland, Scotland in easing many restrictions.
The implication was that minister's here were trying to do more to protect the public from the direct harms of Covid.
But could this approach have led to other harms?
The Welsh government's own scientific advisors in a paper published last year pointed out that the restrictions did help reduce hospitalisations, deaths and pressure on the NHS.
But they also led to a decline in mental health and well-being and an increase in educational and employment inequalities.
Welsh government would 'err on the side of caution'
Morgan told the inquiry that "if the evidence wasn't as clear as we'd like, we'd err on the side of caution".
The health minsier tells inquiry Wales' cautious approach seemed to “chime with the people of Wales.”
"We were doing what was right for our nation," Morgan explains.
"In terms of the balance we were very aware that the public health requirements were something that we should consider.
"We knew lockdown was affecting people emotionally, economically, phyisically, we had to balance publc health requirements with those other."
Live Reporting
Catriona Aitken and Peter Shuttleworth
All times stated are UK
'No decisions were made on WhatsApp'
Jenny Rees, Wales health correspondent
The topic of whatsapp messages has been a constant theme of this inquiry - and this morning was no different.
It was Wales' former Health Minister Vaughan Gething yesterday and his successor Eluned Morgan today - and she was unable to provide all of her messages as some had been deleted.
Morgan said earlier that “no decisions were made on WhatsApp” and said many of those that had been deleted had been provided to the inquiry by other people in the conversation.
"There were only a couple of examples where that happened and you have the information that was within them," she adds.
Morgan states she "didn't delete any deliberately" but doesn't "know quite why or when" they went missing and expressed sadness that not all were available.
'People in Wales felt like second-class citizens'
Hywel Griffith
BBC News' Wales Correspondent
We heard earlier how people in Wales felt like “second class citizens” after the UK Government turned down a request to help fund a two week “firebreak” lockdown in October 2020.
Labour’s Baroness Eluned Morgan, Wales' current health minister, said the cabinet in Cardiff had made a “brave decision” in introducing its own short autumn lockdown following scientific advice calling for a “circuit-breaker”.
However, she said she was “really disappointed” by the Treasury’s refusal to fund furlough payments - especially when financial support as then made available when England later went into its own lockdown.
“What was suitable for them was not suitable for us two weeks earlier,” Morgan told the inquiry. "That was a huge disappointment”.
“I think that was a very difficult time for us as a nation because people felt like we were second-class citizens in the context of the UK government."
Inquiry chair Baroness Hallett pointed out that there was a “different side to that debate”, which she had heard in previous evidence.
What did Welsh government learn about care homes?
While the inquiry is on lunch, we'll go back to this morning's evidence when the Covid bereaved families group asked Wales' health minister if the government made mistakes in relation to care homes.
Eluned Morgan says that she “tried to learn some lessons” when the Omicron Covid variant emerged, in particular “trying to tighten guidelines around people who visited multiple sites” in order to curb transmission.
Pressed on whether lessons surrounding testing and admission to care homes from hospitals had been learned, she adds: “At the beginning of the pandemic, there may have been issues in relation to the testing opportunities. That was not true later on in the pandemic.”
Your lunchtime digest
It’s lunchtime. We’ve got an hour until the inquiry resumes - here are the key lines:
First up was health minister Eluned Morgan:
Next came Rebecca Evans - minister for finance and local government.
'Wales couldn't opt out of Eat Out to Help Out'
Rebecca Evans is asked about the “Eat Out to Help Out” scheme in August 2020 - launched by then chancellor and now prime minister Rishi Sunak, aimed at boosting the hospitality industry’s recovering after lockdown.
Wales' finance minister says she noted the prime minister’s evidence to the inquiry when he said Wales did not ask to opt out of the scheme.
“That’s a curious thing to say because there’s no mechanism within the devolution settlement for us to opt in or opt out of UK government programmes or decisions," she tells the inquiry.
"Devolution would look very different if we were able to opt in or out of choices the UK government makes.”
She says that although the scheme was popular with businesses in Wales, it was a UK scheme.
'No rhyme or reason' for financial barriers
Evans says the additional funding which came to Wales in the 2020-21 financial year was “huge” - at £5.2 billion.
But it was the Barnett Guarantee – which made sure consequential funding given to Wales for spending by the UK government elsewhere didn’t fall below a certain level – that was crucial.
“When that arrived, it was very useful,” Wales' finance minister tells the inquiry.
“It should have happened earlier. It was definitely a huge step forward but even more clarity was needed.”
She says it didn’t impact the big decisions being made, but it meant they were carrying big risks, which was a “very, very uncomfortable place to be”.
Asked what clarity she was seeking, Evans says she was asking for more frequent sharing of reconciliation data, carrying money over to a new financial year and whether Wales could increase borrowing.
She also says the Welsh government asked to have “full access” to the Welsh reserve, worth £350m, but this was denied during the pandemic. It was then agreed in this financial year due to the cost of living crisis.
“There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason,” she says.
Wales' help for businesses was to 'bridge gap'
Evans is asked about a Covid business support scheme called the Economic Resilience Fund (ERF) - which was first announced by the Welsh government in 2020.
Wales' finance minister tells the inquiry that the economy minister oversaw the scheme, but her role was primarily “ensuring the interventions were affordable to the Welsh government”.
Evans says the funding was meant to “bridge the gap” for businesses in terms of what they needed versus what they could access through UK government funding.
But, when looking at funding decisions, consideration was always given to whether furlough or a UK-led option could be utilised.
“We were very careful to do that,” Evans says.
Some ministers 'uneasy' about Covid finance plan
Rebecca Evans explains how a “star chamber” worked to run Wales' financial response to the pandemic, giving advice to the finance minister on fiscal matters.
It met every day at one point and then twice-weekly until October 2020. The membership was made up of officials, special advisers and Evans and another minister.
Quarter of a billion pounds was reprioritised from within the Welsh government to go into the Covid response reserve.
Wales' finance minister tells the inquiry they set some principles for reprioritising – and it had to protect key existing commitments, “life and limb” and statutory obligations.
She says some colleagues were uneasy about the star chamber approach, whch was understandable as it was different to how government usually operated.
Ms Evans also set up a dashboard so ministers could see the latest financial position, sources of funding and the key areas where spending was going.
Finance minister didn't approve all Covid spending
Evans is asked if she had to approve all changes to spending priorities in Wales made as a result of the pandemic - and replies that she didn't.
"I allowed colleagues to re-prioritise within their own budgets," she says, citing the then-education minister Kirsty Williams' ability to purchase IT equipment for school children who needed it to learn from home.
"I just needed to be informed of those choices that were being made, I didn't need to approve them."
Money discussions with UK government 'variable'
Rebecca Evans tells the inquiry the UK government failed to recognise the important role of the Welsh government in Wales’ finances.
“The UK government, I don’t think realise that we are responsible to the Senedd”, says Wales' finance minister, referencing the “incredible amount of scrutiny” from the Welsh public in general on Wales-specific financial decisions.
“By treating us like another UK government department, there’s no recognition of the unique role we have and the fact we are a government," Evans tells the inquiry
She says she was focused on managing Welsh government’s financial response to the pandemic.
There were meetings with other UK finance ministers and they met more frequently than before the pandemic, although the quality of meetings was “variable”.
“Over the course of the pandemic, we met around six times in the first six months,” Evans says.
Was there a turning point in Wales' cautious Covid approach?
Daniel Davies
BBC Wales political correspondent
Wales' health minister Eluned Morgan said earlier this morning that led by a politician of “incredible integrity”, the Welsh Government was deliberately cautious.
Restrictions were eased more slowly in Wales than the rest of the UK – and while Morgan says First Minister Mark Drakeford’s Cabinet didn’t deliberately plot a route out of lockdown in comparison to the other nations, their cautious decisions “seemed to chime with the people of Wales”.
But previous hearings have reminded us things were different earlier in the pandemic.
Other UK administrations acted quicker to advise against mass gatherings, test people in care homes and make face masks compulsory in 2020.
Wales' finance minister takes the stand
Rebecca Evans is next after Eluned Morgan to face the inquiry.
She has been minister for finance since 2018, as well as minister for local government from 2021.
Decisions over money, particularly in the post-Covid recession period, have come under her remit, as well as liaising with local authorities over their resources and spending.
During last week's UK government spring budget announcement, Evans called for more spending on public services.
‘What is a nightclub?’
Eluned Morgan has finished giving evidence to the inquiry now - but earlier she spoke about the opening up of hospitality venues in the summer of 2021, in line with the roll-out of vaccination passes.
A crucial question of the Welsh government at the time was what restrictions should beplaced on nightlife.
“I think it was difficult to ask people to limit their contacts if you were still allowing people to gather in significant numbers," she tells the inquiry.
Specifically addressing the issue of nightclubs, Morgan says there were numerous questions.
Firstly, what was a nightclub? Did it include bars where people could dance?
Secondly, the issues of borders, with people likely to travel to places like Bristol and Chester to attend venues if they could not access them in Wales.
And finally, whether regulations on nightclubs would “displace activity into unregulated house parties”.
Morgan says it was a question of “balancing” these elements.
'Is Matt Hancock hopeless?'
Steve Duffy
BBC Wales
The inquiry is shown notes from Morgan, in which she writes "is Matt Hancock hopeless?".
Another entry reads: “Prime Minister – Chaos”.
She is then asked whether the remarks jotted down were linked to text messages published in June 2021 by former Downing Street adviser Dominic Cummings, in which then-Prime Minister Boris Johnson criticised the approach from those in Cabinet during the pandemic.
"I'm guessing it must have been and it would have made sense in terms of the timing," Morgan replies.
She adds that those notes would be "more political in nature", something she would show to her political group - and the notes aided her in remembering what was happening at the time.
Another entry relates to a meeting, when Morgan was not invited and learnt of “English moves” via the media, in what she describes as a “wholly unsatisfactory situation.”
She tells the inquiry Welsh ministers were being invited to meetings very late and being given information “sometimes minutes before.”
Morgan adds she was concerned in one meeting that she was a “lone voice” and the majority would come out against the public health position when it came to tourism.
Ministers were clear on Covid rules
Ok, the inquiry is back after its morning cuppa and Wales' health minister is back on the stand.
Before the break, we were shown messages between various ministers in the summer of 2020, asking each other to confirm regulations surrounding travelling to different counties within Wales for day trips or recreational activities.
Asked whether there was a lack of “clarity” in the rules, causing confusion even among ministers, Eluned Morgan argues her colleagues were “just trying to take shortcuts to gather information”.
“I think the clarity was probably there in the regulations but quite often people wanted us to read the regulations for them," she says.
“We spent a huge amount of time talking to stakeholders about those regulations, so I’m not sure that is fair [to suggest we were confused].”
What we've heard so far this morning
And with that, the inquiry is breaking for morning tea. If you're just joining us, Eluned Morgan, who took over as health minister in May 2021, has been on the witness stand. Here are some of the key moments from her testimony:
'Mental health service always considered essential'
Morgan was appointed to a newly created position during the pandemic in October 2020, that of the minister of mental health wellbeing.
She is asked if mental health may not have been given enough focus by the Welsh government during the pandemic.
"No, I don't accept that. I know that mental health was always considered an essential service," Morgan tells the inquiry.
"We take mental health very seriously in Wales. There were concerns that fewer people were being directed to mental health services, we saw that there were more self-referrals.
"We were very aware that there were people who were struggling."
‘Wales felt like second-class citizens in the UK’
Discussing the firebreak lockdown of October 2020, Morgan says Wales was keen to see if local restrictions were working first, as it would be "brave" to act ahead of England.
But the Welsh health minster said she feels Wales was left feeling like “second class citizens”.
“We were really concerned about the financial ability of the Welsh government… we did not have the economic power,” she tells the inquiry about Wales' plea to the UK government for support.
“It was really disappointing that the UK government were not forthcoming when it came to the financial side.”
Morgan says frustrations grew when, two weeks later, the UK government announced its own lockdown for England.
“I think that was a very difficult time for us as a nation because people felt like we were second-class citizens in the context of the UK government," she says.
But Baroness Hallett tells the inquiry there is “another side to that debate” as the inquiry had heard evidence that this was not the UK government's approach.
Video content
Was Wales' cautious Covid approach the right one?
Owain Clarke
BBC Wales Health Correspondent
In her written evidence Eluned Morgan talks about the Welsh government being "deliberately cautious" on Covid restrictions.
It meant Wales was slower than England, Northern Ireland, Scotland in easing many restrictions.
The implication was that minister's here were trying to do more to protect the public from the direct harms of Covid.
But could this approach have led to other harms?
The Welsh government's own scientific advisors in a paper published last year pointed out that the restrictions did help reduce hospitalisations, deaths and pressure on the NHS.
But they also led to a decline in mental health and well-being and an increase in educational and employment inequalities.
Welsh government would 'err on the side of caution'
Morgan told the inquiry that "if the evidence wasn't as clear as we'd like, we'd err on the side of caution".
The health minsier tells inquiry Wales' cautious approach seemed to “chime with the people of Wales.”
"We were doing what was right for our nation," Morgan explains.
"In terms of the balance we were very aware that the public health requirements were something that we should consider.
"We knew lockdown was affecting people emotionally, economically, phyisically, we had to balance publc health requirements with those other."