TikTok's boss Shou Zi Chew faced hostile questioning from the US House Committee on Energy and Commerce
Committee chair Cathy Rodgers says the Chinese-owned app should be banned due to security concerns over user data privacy
TikTok is a weapon of the Chinese Communist Party, she says, and it doesn't embrace US values
Much of the questioning focused on TikTok's relationship with its China-based owner ByteDance
Chew accepted user data on TikTok could be accessed by ByteDance employees in China, but said work was ongoing to keep American users' personal information in the US
Other members of the committee voiced concerns over TikTok's efforts at tackling disinformation and harmful content
US President Joe Biden has called for an outright ban or for the US part of the company to be sold to a domestic buyer
The app has grown rapidly in the US where it has 150 million monthly users
Next up is Congresswoman Ann Kuster who turns to content that is harmful to children.
"I'd like to dig further into privacy and safety controls for children," she begins. "Protections are worthless if they delete an account and create a new one with a different age."
Kuster asks if Chew is aware of this problem. Is it a bug which he is willing to fix?
"I will go and have a look at it," he says.
Congressman Dave Joyce is speaking now, asking Chew to set out a timeline for when old TikTok data will be transferred to the American server.
Chew says he believes it will be done by the "end of this year".
Joyce continues: "Until that data transfer, user data remains available to China."
Chew replies: "I disagree with this assessment the Chinese government has access to this data.
"This is a private company."
Chew then says government devices should not have any social media apps.
Joyce finishes with a flourish, saying: "TikTok cannot be trusted. I contend TikTok is the spy in American's pockets."
Democrat Kim Schrier was just up, questioning Chew about the effects of TikTok on children's mental health, noting it is designed to be addictive.
Schrier, who is a paediatrician as well as politician, notes a particular problem with teenagers staying awake all night to use the app - when sleep is critical to development and wellbeing.
She asks Chew if TikTok has psychologists or other medical advisors looking at the effects of screen time on lack of sleep.
The TikTok CEO points to work with a specialist children's health facility in Boston to develop a feature which limits screen time to an hour and encourage them to take a break.
Schrier responds by calling this an "opt out" which no one would use.
"That's like asking a chain smoker not to take the next cigarette, it is not gonna happen."
James Clayton
North America technology reporter
“Welcome to the most bi-partisan committee in Congress” said Representative Buddy Carter earlier today. And so it has proved.
Over and over again, politicians of every stripe have slammed TikTok. There’s been no let up.
When Twitter or Facebook executives do similar hearings, there are usually some legislators that are sympathetic to the companies - particularly Californians.
A classic line is: “We should be praising American companies doing well”.
It gives executives answering questions just a little bit of respite. But no such luxury here for Shou Zi Chew. It’s been a constant bombardment of criticism.
Image source, Getty ImagesMoving on to Congressman Darren Soto, who says he believes that TikTok needs to be an American company with American values.
"We have to protect our kids - especially those under 13," he says, adding the key for him is privacy.
Chew pushes back saying: "I think we need to address the problem of privacy.
"With all due respect, American companies don't have a great track record with data.
"Just look at Facebook and Cambridge Analytica."
Back to the US Capitol - Shou Chew was just asked several times by Republican Debbie Lesko if he agrees that the Chinese government represses the Muslim Uyghur minority in Western China.
At no point does he say he does, instead answering by saying it is "deeply concerning to hear about all accounts of human rights abuse" and that he is "here to describe TikTok and what we do as a platform".
After being accused of being evasive, Chew says anyone who uses their app can access content about Uyghur people and they "allow our users to freely express their views on this issue".
Lesko brings up the case of an account of an American teenager being suspended in 2019 for putting out a video about the "Uyghur genocide", to which Chew says it was a "mismoderation" and he can get back to Lesko about the specifics of the case.
Gordon Corera
Security correspondent
Image source, Getty ImagesThis hearing will be closely watched in the UK – particularly by those more hawkish on China and who want to follow Washington’s lead.
The UK has tended to follow rather than lead on this issue – it took some time for it to follow the US, Canada and even the EU in banning TikTok from official devices.
A vocal group of parliamentarians have been pushing for a tougher line on Chinese technology. After working to get Huawei out of 5G telecoms they have turned their sights on TikTok.
Several lawmakers today have said they want to see a TikTok ban in the US.
Just now, Congresswoman Debbie Lesko lists some of the countries who have banned TikTok in some form, including the UK Parliament, New Zealand and India.
Californian Congresswoman Nanette Barragán asks what age is appropriate for a young person to be on TikTok to which Chew dodges a direct answer and says there are different "experiences" TikTok looks to give younger users.
She presses him again to ask whether he would let his kids use TikTok.
Chew replies to say that his kids live in Singapore and because of that they do not have the "under-13 experience" of TikTok.
Image source, House Energy and Commerce CommitteeMuch of the questioning so far today has focused on what exactly TikTok's relationship is with its Chinese parent company ByteDance.
Republican Gary Palmer is no exception, asking Chew if the Chinese government had bought shares in ByteDance, if he was consulted about the move, or if anyone at the company raised concerns about being required to remove posts which are negative about China.
Chew denies TikTok promotes or removes, as well as rejecting Palmer's characterisation of the ownership of ByteDance.
They then move onto an even more disjointed exchange, where Palmer accuses Chew and TikTok of failing to "screen" for content related to child sexual exploitation and drug trafficking and news about the repression of the Muslim Uyghur minority in western China.
Chew strongly refutes these points, with both men talking across each other for much of the exchange.
US Congresswoman spars with TikTok CEO
Michelle Fleury
Reporting from Congress
As was just referenced in the hearing, TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew showed up in users’ feeds ahead of his Congress appearance. All part of the social media app’s charm offensive.
In a TikTok video, external, we got a small preview of what he he told lawmakers in his opening statement: Chew said TikTok now has 150 million American users. This includes almost 5 million businesses.
We also learnt that TikTok has 7,000 American employees. The point being made here is that locking TikTok out of the US is something a huge number of Americans will notice.
And TikTok is betting they won’t like it.
Chew also urged users to let him now in the comments section what they wanted their elected representative to know about the social media app.The first reply: “You know something went wrong when the boss has to show up.”
Celia Hatton
Asia regional editor
Image source, ReutersFor months, Beijing has been dialling up its criticism of Washington’s concerns over TikTok.
Recently, the foreign ministry questioned why the US would need to fear a “young person’s favourite app.”
At other times, the Chinese government has questioned why the US would restrict speech by limiting access to TikTok, calling it an abuse of state power.
The irony, of course, is that China does not allow its own population to have access to the app. The Chinese version of TikTok, Douyin, is censored to eliminate politically sensitive content.
Other apps, like Facebook and Instagram, are also banned and in recent years it has become much more difficult for Chinese users to get a VPN (virtual private network) to circumvent the firewalls.
Let’s not forget: the idea of a major tech CEO appearing live to answer questions in front of a Chinese committee would be unthinkable. In China, such things happen behind firmly closed doors.
James Clayton
North America technology reporter
Image source, Getty ImagesThe committee is now back for second half of the hearing.
Lots of very angry questioning from both sides so far. As usual, many legislators use their time to make their own point, rather than asking pointed questions.
But the most interesting exchange was about who has access to American data – right now.
Chew kept talking about a policy called “Project Texas”, which will store all data in the US under the watch of US firm Oracle.
However Project Texas is not fully operational. As of now, Chew confirmed that ByteDance engineers in China have access to data.
"We rely on global interoperability, Chinese engineers have access to data," he said.
That’s the crux of the problem for Chew. If it can be accessed by Chinese engineers, in China, it’s hard to see how the Chinese government couldn’t also access it.
Image source, House Energy and Commerce CommitteeRepublican Jay Obernolte dedicates his five minutes to questions on TikTok's Project Texas, which the company says will eventually lead to all US user data being stored solely in a facility in the southern state.
In the project, TikTok says independent monitors from US tech firm Oracle will examine the code used for the app.
Chew has repeatedly referred to this project as how TikTok can guarantee US citizen's data will be secure in the future, once it is fully up and running.
Obernolte, who is a software engineer, asks Chew technical questions about how TikTok's code is developed and reviewed - which results in the CEO explaining that, while code may be written elsewhere, it will be examined by US-based engineers from external companies.
To a follow up on how TikTok can protect against "malicious actors" interfering in its software, Chew says the solution is having a multi-layered approach to monitoring. The TikTok CEO says he believes there are enough "third-party experts".
Obernolte ultimately concludes he does not believe TikTok can achieve what it claims with Project Texas, given "there are too many backdoors" in the system to prevent someone from adding "malicious code" if they wanted to.
Joe Tidy
Cyber-security reporter
Image source, Getty ImagesOn paper I would say yes.
The cyber security world is largely in agreement that TikTok collects a huge amount of private data but it’s about the same amount as other apps like Instagram and Facebook.
Where the company is leading though is by offering to share its app source code with a third party tech firm for monitoring. No other social media company is offering this.
Chew also outlined further steps to “firewall” data in the US to make it not accessible by Chinese members of staff in a plan called Project Texas. The company announced similar plans in Europe called Project Clover.
Other apps like Facebook currently freely share data across borders from the UK and around the world with US staff.
TikTok has been guilty of some heinous cases of misusing data but to be honest so have all big tech firms who regularly prove to be terrible custodians of our private data.
So on paper, yes Chew appears to be correct.
The issue for TikTok though is that these procedures are complex and technical and this debate is boiling down to ‘can we trust a Chinese app?’
If the first 40 minutes of the hearing are anything to go by, no amount of data privacy innovation is are going to persuade the US politicians that TikTok can be trusted.
First up after the recess is Congressman Tony Cárdenas, a Democrat from California, who comments that a post which threatened the chair of the committee stayed on TikTok for 41 days until it was taken down during the hearing.
"Are you investing more and more every day into bringing down that kind of content," Cárdenas asks.
"Yes and I commit to investing more," Chew replies as he says TikTok's revenue is going up each month.
Cárdenas then engages in back and forth over whether TikTok is a Chinese company or not, as Chew says the company's headquarters are based in Singapore and Los Angeles.
The Congressman points out the company is owned by Bytedance - a Chinese company.
Gordon Corera
Security correspondent
Image source, PA MediaThe UK’s clampdown on TikTok has now extended to parliamentary devices, as well as government ones. The numbers of people affected is pretty small and so far there is not much sign of a wider ban.
The UK has been behind some of its allies in taking these steps and privately security officials acknowledge that they have not necessarily seen new evidence of specific threats related to the app.
Most of the risks remain largely theoretical. Firstly, that sensitive data – things like location or contacts - could be collected from specific individuals and delivered to the Chinese state. This is something the company strenuously denies has happened or could happen.
The other major perceived risk is that TikTok to be used for what are called "influence operations" – trying to shape the way people think. For instance, influencing how they see China or their political views.
Again, there is no specific evidence yet of this happening. So what the bans really represent is another sign of the growing tension between China and the West.
The committee hearing has resumed.
While we await the resumption of this Congressional hearing with TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew. let's catch up with some of the questions.
Democrat Yvette Clarke asked Chew about concerns that TikTok is disproportionately suppressing the speech of minority groups.
She referenced reports that content moderation at the company had flagged terms like "black" and the "Black Lives Matter" protest movement as harmful and removed posts including them
Clarke asked Chew if he believes social media platforms should be more transparent about the impact their algorithms have on "protected classes" like race, religion, national origin or gender, as well as agreeing to audits of their practices.
Chew said he'd need to check what exactly she means by an audit, but also - in a rare chance to finish an answer - agrees with the broader point that social media firms should be as transparent as possible about their algorithms.
Image source, Reuters