Brandon Livesay
Live reporter

We're finishing up our live coverage of today's hearing at Congress into UAPs.

Listening to first-hand accounts from former members of the US military and intelligence community has been compelling, but also frustrating.

The witnesses claimed to have more knowledge, but were unwilling or unable to share it in a "public setting".

What we did hear will likely raise more questions from lawmakers, who are particularly interested in government transparency and national security.

Our writers today have been Kayla Epstein and Madeline Halpert, and the page was edited by Marianna Brady and Brandon Livesay.

Thanks for joining us.

Why the 'Tic Tac' UAP didn't behave like a normal aircraftpublished at 18:30 British Summer Time 26 July 2023

18:30 BST 26 July 2023

Stephen Dowling
Deputy editor, BBC Future

One of the witnesses at today's hearing – retired US Navy pilot Commander David Fravor – described how during a training exercise over the Pacific Ocean in 2004, an unidentified object was identified by radar controllers.

"The controller told us that these objects had been observed for over two weeks coming down from over 80,000 feet, rapidly descending to 20,000 feet, hanging out hours and then going straight back up," he told hearing.

He described seeing a small white "Tic Tac" shaped object close to the ocean surface moving erratically like a "ping pong ball" that travelled more than 60 miles in less than a minute.

It isn't the only time navy pilots have encountered a strange flying object – in 2015, US Navy fighter jets caught the erratic movements of an unidentified object on their Forward Looking Infra Red (Flir) cameras.

It appeared to rotate in mid-air, moving against the wind.

But flying at 80,000ft (24km) is no easy feat – the thin air makes it very hard for aircraft to stay aloft unless they are travelling very fast.

One plane which did operate at this dizzying height was the Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird spy plane. (Read BBC Future's article 'The Cold War's ultimate spyplane'.)

The objects captured in the Flir camera footage look nothing like an SR-71. Also – the SR-71 fleet had been grounded in 1999, when the last mission for Nasa were flown.

Aircraft performing missions at such heights also wouldn't normally descend to almost sea-level unless they were about to land.

There was no true bombshell revelation in this hearing. But some important things did happen:

• Congress is openly acknowledging a commitment to investigate UAPs, after years of lawmakers interested in the subject largely conducted their efforts in private.
• The witnesses called for a reporting system for pilots who witness UAP incidents, as well as protections for pilots or whistleblowers who come forward. Members of Congress have been open to creating such a programme as a result of the hearing.
• Lawmakers are attempting to open up new avenues to investigate UAPs. Several attempted to get information on the record about which members of the government would know about UAPs, where reports may have been filed, and whether or not Congress might have missed information provided to them.
• While witnesses like David Grusch said much of that information was classified, he offered to provide that information confidentially to Congress in a secure setting. If he does so, it could open up new avenues of investigation for lawmakers.
• Grusch also told lawmakers that "non human" biologics had been recovered by the government, but he had never seen an alien body.
• Commander David Fravor (Ret.) recounted his own experience with a UAP, and the witness described already public videos of UAPs released by the New York Times in 2017.
• All three witnesses acknowledged that the UAPs were a potential national security threat.

Kayla Epstein
US reporter

While lawmakers have praised the bipartisan nature of interest in UAPs, we did see a key split in how they’re viewing the issue in a broader context.

Republicans on the panel linked the issue of UAPs more broadly to scepticism of government bureaucracy. In his opening statement, Rep Tim Burchett alleged there was a government “cover up” of information about UAPs.

Democrats on the panel, however, took a more moderate tone. They have acknowledged the government has not been transparent about UAPs and that Americans deserve answers.

But Rep Robert Garcia warned about using language such as “cover up” in his opening remarks. “We should come to this hearing with an open mind,” he said.

While there’s an unusual amount of agreement between Democrats and Republicans in Congress on this particular issue, some partisan division did seep through.

Juicy elements ducked, and plenty of questions remainpublished at 17:48 British Summer Time 26 July 2023

17:48 BST 26 July 2023

Jon Donnison
Reporting from Washington DC

“We are not bringing little green men or flying saucers into the hearing. Sorry to disappoint y’all,” opened Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee at the start of this hearing in his distinctive southern drawl.

And that’s how it turned out. The committee heard about numerous sightings of UAPs or UFOs - which the three witnesses described as very much “routine”.

But David Grusch ducked some of the potentially juiciest elements of the hearing, saying they couldn’t be discussed in a public setting. The former intelligence officer was asked if the US government has had communication with “extra-terrestrials”.

He said he couldn’t talk about that.

He was asked if anyone had been murdered in an effort by the government to cover up information about UAPS and UFOs.

Again, he said he couldn’t comment.

He said he hadn’t seen any of the alien craft he believes the US government has in storage with his own eyes, but said 40 witnesses he had spoken to had assured him them they do exist.

In a throwback to former US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, there was plenty of talk in this hearing of “known unknowns” and “unknown unknowns”.

But after more than two and half hours of testimony, it’s probably fair to say exactly what is now known that was previously unknown, is not known.

Richard Gray
Editor, BBC Future

Image source, Getty Images

Conspiracy theories are not new – they pop up (and were believed) throughout human history. After a fire destroyed ancient Rome in 64AD, for example, Emperor Nero was blamed. The story spread as fast as the flames, but historians now believe it was unlikely.

There are many reasons why conspiracy theories take hold and capture people's imaginations. Researchers studying conspiracy theories have uncovered what my colleague Melissa Hogenboom describes as a "smorgasbord of explanations". This science has suggested that:

• People drawn to conspiratorial explanations tend to have a need for uniqueness. The "secret" information and insights they claim to have access to can help them feel this.
• Conspiracy theories can also help people make sense of the world they feel is out of control as the answers they offer can be psychologically comforting.
• Ideas of a coverup or global conspiracy can also leave people feeling even more uncertain and powerless.
• When politicians acknowledge the possibility that visits by extra-terrestrials are being kept secret, the wider public are more likely to see conspiracy theories in a favourable way.
• People who believe in conspiracy theories often feel more politically disengaged.

To find out more about why people believe conspiracies, read this article on BBC Future.

The hearing into UAPs has just come to a close.

Democratic Rep Richard Garcia said it was the most bipartisan conversation he's seen as a freshman in Congress.

The discussion is "bringing people together", he says.

Republican Rep Tim Burchett claims the hearing "made history".

The hearing may be over, but stick with us as we bring you more analysis of what was learned today.

We're hearing from three witnesses, here's what they claim:

David Grusch is a whistleblower who recently claimed the US government has been hiding evidence of at least a dozen alien crash sites. Grusch is a former intelligence officer who was part of the Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Task Force.

David Fravor is the former commanding officer of the US Navy’s Black Aces Squadron. Fravor says he circled a UFO while flying his F/A-18F Super Hornet over the Pacific in 2004. Fravor described the object as looking like a smooth Tic Tac or propane gas tank - a cylinder with no wings. Video of the incident was declassified in 2020, along with two other videos of UAPs.

Ryan Graves is a former navy fighter pilot who says his squadron repeatedly encountered mysterious flying objects which could remain stationary despite hurricane-level winds. Graves founded Americans for Safe Aerospace, a group that supports aviators who have reported UAPs.

Rep Nancy Mace, a North Carolina Republican, tried to get Grusch to elaborate on what he knew about non-terrestrial bodies.

She asks him if "biologics" were recovered from any crashed crafts.

Referencing his previous media interviews, Grusch responds that "biologics came with some of these recoveries".

Were they human or non-human? Mace asks.

"Non-human, and that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the programme I talked to," Grusch responds.

Image source, Getty Images

Rep Gaetz has been asking questions about whether UAPs might be able to disable aircraft technology - like radars and cameras.

He described an incident during which a US pilot was using radar to observe an unidentified object, but when the pilot approached, the radar went down.

He had to manually take an image from one of the lenses.

Gaetz is asking David Fravor what we should do if UAPs may have the ability to disarm sensors and collection systems.

It's a national security issue, says Fravor, adding that during his own experience with a UAP, it completely disabled the radar on his aircraft.

"That's a concern," he said. "Not only how they operate but their capabilities inside to do things like this."

Rep Eric Burlison, a Missouri Republican, appears to be one of the more sceptical lawmakers on the panel. He asks Grusch directly if he's seen an alien craft or body.

Grusch says that he can't discuss if he has seen a spacecraft in a "public setting".

It's an excuse that has been used multiple times in this hearing.

But he concedes he has not seen an alien body.

Burlison attempts to poke holes at the concept that pilots are seeing alien objects. He said he finds it hard to believe that a being that can technologically travel billions of miles to reach us would be "incompetent" enough to crash on Earth.

Invoking "Occam's Razor" - a principle that the simplest answer is usually the correct one - he asks whether any of the UAPs could actually be craft created by military contractors, or belong to secret agency programmes that other government entities aren't aware of.

Hundreds of unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) sightings are reported every year - many of which go unreported in the news or are ultimately explained.

In a notable recent case from 2004 that was caught on video, two US Navy fighter pilots filmed a round object hovering above the water about 100 miles (160 km) out into the Pacific Ocean. One of the pilots who saw this UAP is Commander David Fravor, who is a witness at today’s hearing.

Two other videos filmed in 2015 show objects moving through the air, one of which is spinning. In one, a pilot is heard saying: "Look at that thing, dude! It's rotating!"

The Pentagon says these instances remain unexplained.

In another incident in early 2021, an American Airlines pilot flying between the US cities of Cincinnati and Phoenix reported a “long cylindrical object that almost looked like a cruise missile” moving at high speeds.

Air traffic controllers later confirmed that no other aircraft were reported in the area and that it is unsure what the object was.

A similar incident in 2018 was reported nearly simultaneously by an American Airlines plane and private jet.

There's a reason US lawmakers are taking a strong interest in UAPs, it's an issue that resonates with many Americans.

A new Ipsos poll released earlier this week found that about 42% of Americans, external believe in otherworldly UFOs.

One in 10 Americans reported that they had seen a UFO.

The poll was taken from a sample of 1,019 people aged over 18.

Last year the BBC asked Americans visiting the National Air & Space Museum if they believe something's out there.

You can hear what they had to say in the video below.

Not every member of Congress is convinced that the truth is out there.

Republican congresswoman Virginia Foxx injected some scepticism into her questioning and asks whether there is "credible evidence" for claims that the objects could be otherworldly.

She referenced this year's Chinese balloon “debacle”, where, after detecting one such craft over the US, the government shot down several other aerial objects they could not immediately identify.

Foxx said the “flip flopping and obfuscation" caused needless fear and panic across the country.

She said she hoped “this kind of confusion will not be repeated” with the issue of UAPs.

“We owe it to the citizens of this nation to make sure our government is transparent and accountable," she said.

Image source, Getty Images

David Grusch described to lawmakers the retaliation he says he faced for coming forward about UAPs.

"It was very brutal", he said, adding he was "administratively attacked” for his perspective on UAPs - and claiming others had been as well.

He called it “administrative terrorism” and ”a tool in their toolbox to silence people”.

Asked by a lawmaker if had knowledge of people being harmed or injured in efforts to cover up UAP technology, he said: "Yes, personally".

He added that he had feared for his life at times.

Witness Ryan Graves says that pilots need greater protections if the military wants to encourage reporting of sightings.

“We need a system where pilots can report without losing their jobs,” he said.

Pilots are worried that reporting a UAP sighting would come back to hurt them during reviews, including psychological exams, Graves explained.

David Fravor said there wasn't a centralised reporting system where the government could collect data about UAP sightings.

Rep. Garcia agreed with them and said he hoped that a better reporting system would be an outcome of this hearing.

Image source, Reuters

Asked by Rep. Robert Garcia whether the US government was in possession of UAPs, whistleblower David Grusch replied: "Absolutely".

His evidence is based off of interviews with over 40 witnesses over the past four years.

Information on where those UAPs are located was given to the Inspector General and intelligence committees, Grusch said.

The third witness, former US Navy commander David Fravor, has given a detailed description of his encounter with a UAP.

It happened when his team detected "white water" on their radar despite clear skies and calm seas with no whitecaps from waves.

He described it as a "small white tic-tac object" moving "very abruptly over the water".

As they tried to track the object, it rapidly accelerated in front of them and disappeared, he said.

The encounter was captured in a 90-second video, but the incident was never investigated, he said.

We're hearing from David Grusch, a former US intelligence official for the Air Force.

He's talking about his decision to become a whistleblower.

He says it came after he heard reports from multiple "esteemed and credentialed" current and former military and intelligence officials that the US government was "operating with secrecy" in regards to UAPs.

During his time in the military, he says he was informed of a "multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program".

He was denied access to additional information about it, he says.

Image source, Reuters

We're hearing the witnesses prepared opening statements now. Up first is Ryan Graves, a former Navy pilot.

Sightings of UAPs in our airspace are not rare, but they are grossly under-reported, he says.

He claims parts of the government are "aware of more about UAPs than they let on".

He's describing his own personal encounters with UAPs, including in 2014, when he says his team detected unknown objects in US airspace over the ocean.