Welsh independence: Plaid Cymru leader rules out timetable

Rhun ap Iorwerth took over Plaid Cymru at the start of June.

Plaid Cymru's new leader has said his party will not promise a timetable for a referendum on independence

Rhun ap Iorwerth's comments mark a departure from his predecessor, Adam Price, who said he would hold a vote within five years if his party won power.

"You don't have to be fully signed up to independence" to support Plaid Cymru, he said.

Mr ap Iorwerth took over in June after Mr Price resigned the month before.

The Member of the Senedd (MS) for Ynys Môn denied he was watering down the party's message on independence, and said the party had to make the case to people moving to Wales from England for a split from the rest of the UK.

He said he wanted a "reset" in how simple his party's message to the public was.

Under Mr Price, who resigned following a damning report on the party's internal culture, Plaid Cymru put independence front and centre of its campaigning.

At the last Senedd election in 2021, Mr Price promised he would stage an independence referendum within five years if he became first minister.

But the party came third, falling behind the Welsh Conservatives, and Mr Price later admitted independence would take "longer than we would hope".

• Plaid promises independence vote in five years

• What we know about Plaid Cymru's new leader

Independence 'is not isolation'

Mr ap Iorwerth said: "I'm not talking the language of setting the timetable for a referendum.

"I see very much the road that we're on as being a journey towards independence. There are people who are confidently on it - people like me. There are people who are curious about independence.

"There are people who, as yet, for whatever reason - and they may be very, very valid reasons - who have decided not to engage or have decided that it's not for them.

"What I want to do is have that conversation with them, build trust with them."

The MS said independence did not mean isolation, but "about redesigning Britain".

"I've got to make independence attractive to people who've moved to Wales from England yesterday, telling them it's not about breaking anything up. It's about building something new."

Since November 2021, Plaid and the Welsh Labour government have been in a co-operation agreement, which sees them work together on a set of policies including free school meals.

The new party leader has remained committed to the deal, which is due to end after three years.

After that and in the run up to the Senedd election, Mr ap Iorwerth said the party would "move to that phase of being absolutely all oppositional, and pointing out why it is that I believe our vision should excite people in Wales more".

'Foolish to give a date'

Speaking on the BBC Walescast programme, Plaid Ceredigion MP Ben Lake said pursuing a timetable was a bad idea.

"I think Rhun is right to point out that we have a lot of work to convince people of Wales that independence is a good thing for them.

"I think we'd be foolish to pursue something that we tie ourselves to an arbitrary date and a calendar, ignorant completely of the facts on the ground.

"Because if we were to get a referendum and that's a challenge in itself, we cannot afford to lose it."

The Plaid leader made the comments in his first interview with BBC Wales' Political Editor Gareth Lewis

Analysis - Gareth Lewis, BBC Wales political editor

One hundred percent committed to independence but not approaching it at 100mph.

Rhun ap Iorwerth's timetable is a slower burner compared to that promised by Adam Price if he had become first minister.

The new leader's talk of a pragmatic approach to independence rather than a "wispy dream" is also a change. Mr Price was once compared to a figure from Welsh mythology who would redeem Wales in her hour of need.

That was not his fault, but the portrayal did not lend itself to pragmatism.

If Mr ap Iorwerth is true to his word then Plaid's messaging across the board will be simpler for us to understand in the future, suggesting perhaps that it was too complicated or nuanced before.

And he acknowledges that many voters are frightened of the idea of an independent Wales. Getting rid of those fears will take some time.