WWE & UFC merger: Lawrence Epstein on potential for joint events and fighter pay
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Lawrence Epstein (L) helped bring the WWE-UFC merger to fruition
Lawrence Epstein has seen UFC undergo huge changes and hit major milestones since he joined full time in 2007.
Few, though, have been as revolutionary as the promotion's merger with WWE and the creation of a new parent company, TKO Holdings.
The mixed martial arts franchise and the world's premier wrestling promotion confirmed a £17.3bn deal had been completed last month.
UFC owners Endeavour Group Holdings control 51% of TKO Group Holdings, while WWE's shareholders have 49%.
Behemoths in their respective fields, UFC and WWE will now work together to try and become the market leaders in sports entertainment.
Epstein, who has been the UFC's chief operating officer for more than a decade, told BBC Sport: "The good news is we've got a similar ethos, we've got a similar spirit, we're both sort of upstarts and have been fighting for the interest of the sports entertainment world.
"We both love that proverbial chip we have on our shoulders - it motivates us every day, makes sure we're not complacent. We're always fighting and it's arguably our number one strength.
"That is embodied, on our side, by Dana [White], who after 20-plus years is fighting harder than he ever has. All of us in this organisation love that chip on our shoulder. Frankly, it's the thing we're most worried about, we never want to lose it and be complacent.
"We don't want to be golf, tennis or football. We want to be who we've always been, which is this organisation that is always fighting for this larger share of this sports entertainment landscape."
Since the merger was announced, many have wondered what this means for the future of the two companies.
Epstein insists it will not change much from a fans' perspective, although the potential of syncing their schedules and potentially staging separate cards in the same city on successive days has already been discussed.
But that doesn't mean UFC and WWE are considering holding joint fight nights.
"These businesses are going to continue to operate separately - we're respectful of our existing fanbases. You're not going to see scripted stuff in the UFC and vice versa in the WWE," Epstein says.
"We are looking at our respective schedules and making sure the overlaps between them make sense. We will probably try some stuff and see what works.
"That may result in a Friday/Saturday or Saturday/Sunday [event in the same city], but it could also result in two events over a 12 month period or four events over a 24 month period."
'Two greatest promoters'
UFC held its first event almost exactly 30 years ago in front of a crowd of just under 8,000 at McNichols Sports Arena in Denver, Colorado on November 12 1993.
At that point, WWE was already well on its way, having been founded under the name of Capitol Wrestling Corporation in 1953.
The UFC, despite giving up 40 years to its new partner, has made massive strides, especially over the past decade, and almost matched WWE's global revenue in 2022. The two companies achieved a combined revenue of £1.98bn, with £940m coming from the UFC.
UFC president Dana White and former WWE CEO Vince McMahon have played integral roles in bringing in those huge sums in to their respective companies.
UFC president Dana White (left) and former CEO of WWE Vince McMahon (right), who is now TKO executive chairman, will be working together in the newly formed company
White has been UFC president since 2001, but his position came under fire this year when a video emerged of him and his wife slapping each other in the face during an altercation in a nightclub.
McMahon stepped down from his position in June 2022 amid allegations of sexual harassment, announcing his retirement a month later, before returning in January 2023 and is now the executive chairman of TKO Holdings.
"I think it's an equal partnership," says Epstein.
"We are both companies led by, in my opinion, the two greatest promoters we've ever seen in Dana White and Vince McMahon."
Last month's merger once again raises the question about fair pay for UFC fighters.
Some athletes in UFC earn as little as $12,000 (£10,000) per bout, according to figures released by state athletic commissions. UFC also offers win bonuses as well as $50,000 (£41,000) performance bonuses.
Top stars like former two-weight champion Conor McGregor and heavyweight champion Jon Jones can earn more than £1m from a single fight.
An anti-trust lawsuit in America, external alleges the UFC pays its fighters only 20% of its event revenues.
In contrast, the WWE reportedly pays a minimum salary of $250,000 (£204,000) to their main-roster fighters, while their biggest stars are given multi-million-dollar deals.
"We're proud of the number of millionaires that we've made and we're proud of the compensation that we've delivered to all of our athletes," Epstein says.
"We continue to pay at the highest level - nobody is paying higher than us in mixed martial arts. It's not even close. When you compare us to other sports organisations of our size, we absolutely are comparable to what those organisations are paying.
"Whether you're coming into the UFC, whether you're Conor McGregor or another top star making huge amounts of money, we're really proud of what we've been able to achieve for our athletes."
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