Expect more players to follow Llewellyn out of Wales - Cardiff captain Josh Turnbull

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Josh TurnbullImage source, Huw Evans Agency
Image caption,

Cardiff back row Josh Turnbull has been capped 13 times by Wales

Cardiff captain Josh Turnbull has warned more players are set to follow Arms Park centre Max Llewellyn in leaving Wales' regions at the end of 2022-23.

Welsh rugby's freeze on player contract negotiations is set to end in January with conditional offers.

Turnbull says bosses have emphasised "stability" as their aim, but that approach does "not excite" him.

"The game needs more money for the regions to be competitive," he said.

"And that's not just Cardiff, but all four regions to be competitive

"And if they're competitive, Welsh rugby is competitive.

"I think at some point, you can't turn around and say to a player 'look, we want you to stay in Wales, but we've only got this much money' and there's a 60-cap rule in play and this that and the other - it's a little bit of restraint of trade, that is - so I wouldn't be surprised in the next few weeks if we see more players leaving like Max Llewellyn."

Turnbull was speaking to the Scrum V podcast in the wake of several recent developments that will have a direct impact on his Welsh capital team and their rivals, Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets.

The Professional Rugby Board (PRB) has told the Welsh Rugby Players Association (WRPA) that the nation's four regions expect "significantly enhanced" Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) funding.

No details of that funding have been made public with the conditional offers to be made from next month.

Turnbull said: "It is a difficult situation and I do feel for some of those boys who are out of contract."

He added: "I've been pretty open with all the players in the squad and said 'look, if you've got any issues, please come and speak to me'.

"We've had a number of meetings with Richard Holland, our CEO at Cardiff, although the picture that's painted is pretty bleak at the moment and it's not a comfortable place to be.

"What I can't understand is how they're using words like 'stability' where actually, if I'm talking on a Cardiff front now, we go well this year and we're competitive, then why are you saying 'we need to have stability for the next couple of years'?

"It's actually going backwards if anything because ultimately we want to be competing at the top end.

"You're telling the player now who's out of contract 'oh, the next couple of years is about stability and how we're going to manage everything'. (It) doesn't sound exciting to me."

The PRB consists of four regional representatives - Alun Jones (Cardiff Rugby), David Buttress (Dragons), the outgoing Nick Garcia (Ospreys), and Simon Muderack (Scarlets) - plus the WRU's Phillips, WRU finance director Tim Moss and two independent members, independent chair Malcolm Wall and Marianne Okland.

PRB meetings are also attended by WRU performance director Nigel Walker and the chair of the rugby management board, Jon Daniels.

The WRPA had warned of players departing unless a freeze on contracts and recruitment is lifted and that some of its members were "reluctantly seeking security elsewhere" amid uncertainty about the sport's financial future.

Since then, Wales lock Will Rowlands' exit from Dragons at the end of the season has been confirmed, leaving doubts over his availability for the 2023 World Cup.

Uncapped, England-qualified Cardiff centre Llewellyn is also set to move, with Gloucester his reported destination.

Meanwhile, speculation continues over the futures of Wales and Ospreys fly-half Gareth Anscombe and Cardiff prop Dillon Lewis.

Ospreys head coach Toby Booth also appeared on the Scrum V podcast, confirming that more than half of the 70 players out of contract at Wales' regions at the end of this season are his players.

"From that point of view you can understand some of the pressure and uncontrollables that we've had to deal with," Booth said.

"So look, unfortunately we can't spend what we haven't got, but what we get given and we are in a better position I suppose than some, the fact that we've got independent sort of backing financially.

"However, the governance needs to be sorted out, the standardised contracts need to be sorted out, the wage cap needs to be sorted out if that's the way they're going to go, in order for us to even engage in these conversations.

"By default you're going to get people that are going to take care of their futures right now if they can and I understand that, and that's very, very disappointing especially if that's somebody that you've put a lot of time and effort into and wants to play for their country."

Booth added: "I can't and won't criticise any player for doing what's right for their career and their family and their financial security, and ultimately we'll be left with what we're left with if that situation occurs.

"I understand that we've made some good progress in the last couple of weeks, but we need progress to be finalised so that we can take care of our business and start finalising people's futures and our squads going forward."

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