Matt Spivey
Live page editor

And, with that, Matt Hancock's questioning has come to an end for today. The Covid inquiry will continue from noon on Monday.

For a recap of the key questions from this morning, Senior Health reporter Jim Reed says these targeted questions were to be expected.

Health editor Hugh Pym, who has been at the inquiry this morning, says Hancock touched on highly contentious issue.

We're wrapping up our live coverage now, but if you want to have a deeper look at the Covid inquiry before it resumes on Monday, we have this explainer.

Jim Reed
Senior Health reporter

Image source, PA Media

The question of how well protected healthcare staff were in Covid is central to this part of the inquiry.

Over the first two years of the pandemic, the official guidance – across the whole UK – said that doctors, nurses and other frontline staff should wear a basic surgical mask at work.

There were exceptions in intensive care and when carrying out certain specific procedures. In those cases, a higher-grade FFP3 respirator mask should have been used, which is designed to filter out tiny airborne particles.

The inquiry has already heard evidence from health officials who were members of the IPC Cell – the organisation responsible for drawing up that guidance at the time.

They said that the rules were based purely on scientific evidence and not on whether there were enough FFP3 masks available.

Now in his testimony Matt Hancock seems to have contradicted that, saying he believed the guidance did “take into account the real-world situation we were in”.

The former health secretary said he was receiving his information second-hand from England’s chief nurse Ruth May and others, rather than directly from the actual members of the IPC cell.

This question is an important one to many thousands of NHS staff who believe they were not well enough protected at work and contracted Covid as a result.

Jim Reed
Senior Health reporter

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Yesterday, Matt Hancock spent all day answering questions from the lead counsel to the inquiry, Jacqueline Carey KC.

Now he’s facing a series of extra questions put by different lawyers on behalf of core participants – that is organisations that have been given special status by the inquiry.

These questions, which always come with a specific agenda or from a certain point of view, must be approved in advice by the chair of the inquiry Baroness Hallett.

The solicitor representing the Trade Union Congress, for example, chose to ask about the mandatory scheme to vaccinate all frontline care home staff in the pandemic, an idea it was heavily critical of at the time.

Matt Hancock said he still believes the policy had an “overriding moral value” and was the right one.

The lawyer representing the doctors’ union, the BMA, asked about staff burnout and trauma.

Matt Hancock said, to reduce that in a future pandemic, lockdown measures needed to be brought in as early as possible.

Expect more targeted questions like that as this session continues.

Hugh Pym
Health editor, at the inquiry

Matt Hancock has again voiced his strong opinion that early lockdowns are essential in the event of a dangerous pathogen spreading .

He told the inquiry that those who understood the consequence of waiting before bringing in necessary measures should unite to win the argument.

He said there were some who were arguing that lockdowns in future should be avoided but this was “false, wrong and dangerous”.

He argued that there should be a national debate now on an immediate response in the event of a future pandemic emerging.

Critics of Mr Hancock have said he was wrong to push for lockdowns throughout 2020 and early 2021 and he did not consider the impact on children and mental health. Some have said another national stay at home order would be unacceptable.

He has touched on a highly contentious issue and - with some experts saying another pandemic cannot be ruled out - the question of the use of restrictions and locking down households has not gone away.

Matt Spivey
Live page editor

Image source, PA Media

Good morning - we're back at the Covid inquiry in central London, which is examining the response and impact of the coronavirus pandemic.

Former Health Secretary Matt Hancock is continuing to give evidence at the Covid inquiry today, after he said yesterday that England came "extremely close" to running out of PPE during the pandemic.

Hancock was in charge of restrictions during the pandemic - including lockdowns and social distancing - but quit his position in June 2021 after breaking his own rules.

If you're looking for more information on what Hancock told the inquiry yesterday, we have summed up the key takeaways and his evidence in brief, and as a reminder this is what the Covid inquiry is.

For some analysis, BBC's Health editor Hugh Pym, who is back at the inquiry today, says Hancock accepts responsibility for Covid failing - to a point.

We'll be covering this morning's proceedings via a live stream from inside the inquiry but will not be providing text updates, you can follow along by clicking Watch live at the top of this page.

Hancock accepts responsibility for Covid failings - up to a pointpublished at 17:06 Greenwich Mean Time 21 November 2024

17:06 GMT 21 November 2024

Hugh Pym
Health editor, at the inquiry

This was Matt Hancock’s third appearance at the inquiry and very different from last time when the hearings were dominated by sweary WhatsApps, personal feuds, accusations and a sense of chaos at the heart of government.

Today, in a calmer atmosphere, inquiry counsel Jacqueline Carey KC was probing Hancock’s role in key decision making as it affected the NHS in the first wave of the pandemic in 2020.

He was taken to task on his statement that the NHS had not been overwhelmed and the suggestion he painted too rosy a picture of the reality at the time.

He was pushed on the cancellation of non-urgent treatment and some cancer care, the creation of the barely used Nightingale hospitals and the acute shortages of PPE.

Hancock acknowledged responsibility up to a point but frequently pointed to his lack of control over the independent NHS England.

Some will sympathise - though bereaved families have said this is buck passing.

Hancock and the leaders of NHS England were at one in calling for 10,000 extra hospital beds in the summer of 2020 to cope with the expected second wave pressures.

This was refused by the Treasury with the former health secretary and Amanda Pritchard of NHS England both arguing the Covid toll in the second wave would have been lower if the request had been granted.

You can read our full write-up of Matt Hancock's evidence here.

We've been reporting throughout the day on former health secretary Matt Hancock appearing at the ongoing Covid inquiry for the third time.

Before we bring the page to a close, here are the key points he made in evidence:

• Hancock agreed with one of the KCs that structural racism was a "contributing factor" in the disproportionate impact of Covid on ethnic minority healthcare workers
• On PPE, he said that at times the system was hours away from running out of some items - although national supplies never completely ran out, some individual locations did
• He said the NHS needs to address nosocomial infections (those acquired in hospital settings), and added this is a problem for health systems everywhere, but particularly the NHS
• In the event of another similar situation, Hancock said he would push for mandatory vaccines for health and social care employees "right from the start"
• Meanwhile, the funds spend on Nightingale hospitals – the temporary hospitals built to take Covid patients - were "entirely justified" as an insurance policy in his view
• He also suggested the UK should have reserve ambulance drivers - in a similar set-up to the Territorial Army

As a reminder, Hancock has not finished his evidence for this section of the inquiry - looking at the impact the pandemic had on healthcare systems, patients and healthcare workers.

He will be back tomorrow from 10:00 GMT.

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Today’s session has concluded and will continue tomorrow. Here is what the former Health Secretary Matt Hancock told the inquiry during his evidence this afternoon:

• He said it was a "mistake" that data-sharing systems put in place which enabled healthcare workers treating a patient to access their individual data have since been "rolled back"
• He accepted there was a higher proportion of deaths among the shielding population which he says was “because they were vulnerable” but defended the shielding programme saying it helped GPs identify which patients might need extra support
• Hancock admitted pharmacists were lower down the list for getting PPE but stressed that while he wanted it to be available to them, the system did not look after them enough
• When questioned about long Covid he said he knew from the outset there would likely be long-term effects of the disease, adding that his mother is a sufferer
• Hancock agreed that structural racism was a "contributing factor" in the disproportionate impact of Covid on ethnic minority workers
• Periodic reviews of feedback from ethnic minority front-line staff would be a good idea going forward to lower the risk of harm, he said

As Matt Hancock was giving evidence to the inquiry James Telfer, who lost his mother to Covid, released a statement on behalf Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice UK.

"Matt Hancock remains more concerned about defending his legacy than helping the UK make sure that the hellish scenes which played out in our overwhelmed hospitals during the pandemic are never, ever repeated," the group says.

The statement goes on to say that Hancock's duty was to "make sure people were safe, not to spin perceptions of the NHS".

Lawyers for the group will question Hancock when he continues giving evidence tomorrow.

The last set of questions for Matt Hancock are from Fenella Morris KC on behalf of the Royal College of Nursing.

She asks Hancock when he began collecting Covid-related data concerning health and social workers.

Infection rates, he says, were dependant on testing availability and he cannot recall the exact date he asked for collection of data on levels of self-isolation.

He agrees with Morris that the datasets are "obviously very important".

And that brings the inquiry to a close for the day.

Matt Hancock will be back giving evidence tomorrow morning from 10:00 GMT.

Stay with us for a round up of the key things he said today.

Richard Jory KC steps up now for the Independent Ambulance Association - the trade body for private firms who have contracts with the NHS.

He says the group was not consulted on Covid guidance in early 2020, and this is evidence that it was created by politicians where it should have been the responsibility of "those working at the coal face".

Hancock agrees that the sector should be consulted in formulating guidance, but challenges the assertion that ambulance services weren't involved at all.

The former health secretary adds that during the pandemic things had to move much quicker.

Thomas' final question is to ask Hancock for his recommendations on reducing inequalities for ethnic minority healthcare workers.

Hancock says HR systems in the NHS need to be "colour blind" and promotions done on merit. When pushed on this answer a little later - he agrees with Thomas that before being "colour blind" structural barriers need to be removed.

Hancock further cites "practical" measures such as improving PPE but also providing extra support and mentoring.

He says the nation is "cautious" about criticising the NHS but believes this is an issue that "needs to be resolved".

Leslie Thomas KC now steps up - he represents the Federation of Ethnic Minority Healthcare Organisations (FEMHO).

The barrister begins by correcting Hancock's assertion that the first four doctors who died were people of colour - it was 10, Thomas says.

He and Hancock then agree on the fact that structural racism was a "contributing factor" in the disproportionate impact of Covid on ethnic minority workers.

As a result he suggests that policies implemented during the pandemic were not geared to address this fact.

Hancock says that he did look to remove these barriers, but argues that the best course of action is to address everyone as individuals.

Thomas moves onto staff ratios and risk assessments. He asks Hancock if any risk assessments were carried out as minority and ethnic workers were overrepresented on the frontlines of the pandemic.

Hancock replies by arguing that his teams didn't know what the impact would be on these workers at the start of the outbreak and stresses that he had to take decisions incredibly quickly.

Periodic reviews of feedback from these front-line staff would be a good idea going forward to lower the risk of harm, he says.

The inquiry has turned to long Covid and Hancock explains he knew from the outset there would likely be long-term effects of the disease.

He explains that the first thing to do is to try to reduce the number of cases from the outset - adding that long Covid is something his mother has suffered with since the first wave.

He also references long Covid clinics of which there were 80 just before he left office.

The inquiry counsel tells Hancock they don't believe there was any specific monitoring of the effects of long Covid for healthcare workers.

"If there wasn't, there should have been," he says.

Jacqueline Carey KC finishes her set of questions by asking Hancock for recommendations he would suggest to the inquiry's chair Baroness Hallett.

He suggests running the NHS at less than 100% capacity in normal times, better use of data (as he spoke about earlier) and a more considered plan for the ability to "surge" capacity.

Hancock shines light on grim reality known in the corridors of powerpublished at 15:45 Greenwich Mean Time 21 November 2024

15:45 GMT 21 November 2024

Hugh Pym
Health editor, at the inquiry

A shortage of personal protective equipment (PPE) was a dominant theme and a source of anger among NHS and social care staff in the first wave of the pandemic.

Matt Hancock has always said that though there were local distribution problems there was never a time when national supplies ran out.

Today he went much further and admitted that the system was within hours of running out of some items. He added that supplies of gowns were within six or seven hours of falling to zero at one stage in April 2020.

At the time doctors and nurses told us of their fears of coming into work and finding during their shifts with Covid patients that their hospital's stocks of PPE had been used up.

Reports of staff being forced to use bin bags made for shocking headlines. All that was played down by ministers and health leaders.

Hancock has now shone a light on the grim reality known about in the corridors of power.

The inquiry returns to the issue of PPE - this time whether there was enough for local pharmacists.

Matt Hancock says he wanted PPE to be available to them, but they are private businesses, so government is not the only recourse for this.

"There's a balance to be struck about who the state provides for," he explains.

Hancock admits it is "accurate" to say that community pharmacists were lower down the list to receive PPE.

He then goes into detail about the relationship between NHS England and community pharmacies and says it was his sense that "the system was not looking after community pharmacists enough".

Hancock now tells the inquiry that while he was trying to encourage virtual GP appointments, face-to-face ones would be necessary for some.

He says the push for more virtual consultations was the "right thing" but acknowledges it would not be appropriate for everyone.

Having more online consultations would free up availability for more face-to-face appointments, he adds.

Hancock concludes by saying he is "totally against" an online-only system for GP consultations.

We're now onto the shielding programme, which advised many vulnerable people to remain at home during the pandemic.

Hancock accepts that there was a higher proportion of deaths among the shielding population despite this, but says: "That's because they were vulnerable".

The former health secretary says that shielding also helped GPs identify which patients might need extra support.

Counsel to the inquiry Jacqueline Carey KC then introduces a letter from doctors' union the BMA which notes that the medical profession felt let down by the suggestion they were failing patients by not seeing those shielding in person.

Hancock says he was keen for there to be as many face-to-face appointments as possible with GPs.

Returning after the short break, the inquiry is looking at data sharing.

Hancock talks about moves to help the NHS share data more effectively during the pandemic through "any secure platform".

He calls it a "mistake" that systems in place during the pandemic have since been "rolled back".

Asked for recommendations on data sharing he lists three key areas:

• Data collection for management purposes. He says this system has improved a "huge amount" and asks the chair to keep pushing and recommend that continues
• Enabling healthcare workers treating a patient to access their individual data and all other treatments they have had
• Use of data to organise the provision of services - for example taking someone through from their initial phone call to an appointment

Image source, PA Media

As the Covid inquiry returns from its break let's go back over what former Health Secretary Matt Hancock has had to say about the availability of PPE for NHS staff:

• Hancock accepted some medical staff went to work wearing ineffective PPE
• Although he was involved in pushing to purchase more PPE, he said there was a limited amount of PPE and “you have to use it as effectively as you can while buying as much as possible", saying that was “the real world reality"
• When challenged about an audit showing some kit was past its sell-by date and was missing gowns, he spoke of how "slowly" the government buys things
• Hancock admitted signing-off on guidance saying PPE could be use more than once had caused upset at the Royal College of Nursing, but “reuse of PPE is better than none”
• On hospital-acquired infections Hancock said some units "did not want to test staff" because they may find too many with Covid
• He said the NHS has a "cultural problem" with not doing enough in relation to nosocomial infections - acquired in hospital settings
• Hancock says the first four doctors to die in the pandemic were all from ethnic minority backgrounds - adding that he was aware of the disproportionality before official reports came through