Summary

  • Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng is asked on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg about the fall of the pound, but says he is focused on growth

  • He defends his decision to cut taxes, saying there is "more to come"

  • Kwarteng admits you can't borrow huge amounts forever, but says the UK is dealing with the massive shocks of Covid and the war in Ukraine

  • Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer tells the show the party would reintroduce the 45p top rate of tax - but backs the government's plan to reduce the basic rate of income tax

  • Starmer says the issue of who pays for a freeze in energy bills is key - but is pushed by Kuenssberg on how long Labour's plan would last

  • Sir Keir was speaking ahead of the Labour Party conference, which is now getting under way in Liverpool

  1. What did we learn from today's big interviews?published at 12:15 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    We'll shortly be pausing our live political coverage, but first a recap on what's emerged from those two big interviews on the BBC this morning.

    • Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said the party would reverse the government's cut to the top rate of income tax, telling the BBC's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg the move was "the wrong choice" during a cost-of-living crisis
    • Sir Keir also said was feeling more optimistic about his electoral prospects, saying "people are believing in Labour again"
    • He was speaking ahead of Labour's party conference, which has just got under way in the city of Liverpool
    • Meanwhile Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng defended his decision to cut billions in taxes, telling the BBC that there was "more to come" but that he was committed to net debt to GDP falling over time
    • While Kwarteng said Britain couldn't borrow huge amounts forever, he said the UK was dealing with the massive shocks of Covid and the war in Ukraine

    Today's live coverage was brought to you by Matt Davis, Rob Corp and Nathan Williams.

  2. How high is the UK's tax burden?published at 11:58 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Reality Check

    The chancellor told Laura Kuenssberg that he found it "unacceptable and unsustainable" that the UK was heading for a "70-year tax high and that we could continue simply raising taxes".

    Kwarteng is right that we were heading for taxes to take more of the economy than they had for over 70 years.

    The government's plans in March were forecast to bring the tax burden to over 36% of the size of the economy by 2027, according the official independent government spending watchdog, the OBR.

    That would have been the highest tax burden since the 1940s.

    The government has not made available any independent assessment of their new spending plans. But the Institute for Fiscal Studies has tried to calculate their effect.

    The IFS says that the new plans will bring the tax take back down to where it was last year but that still leaves it at its "highest sustained level since the 1950s".

    While the UK's tax take is forecast to remain high by historical standards, that's still not the highest among leading industrial economies: higher than the US but lower than western European countries like France or Germany.

  3. How big are energy company profits?published at 11:43 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Reality Check

    Speaking to Laura Kuenssberg, Keir Starmer said "oil and gas companies in the North Sea have made excess profits - all together, everything included – of £170bn. This is profits they didn’t expect to make".

    The £170bn figure was mentioned in a Bloomberg article last month, external which claimed that this was the amount of money that Treasury officials estimated oil and gas companies would make in excess profits over the next two years.

    Labour have been quoting this and say their plans for a bigger windfall tax on these companies would target these profits.

    But the Treasury says it "does not recognise" the Bloomberg analysis.

    It says the existing windfall tax – introduced by former chancellor Rishi Sunak – is expected to raise £5bn in its first year. It applies to oil and gas extracted from the UK, including from the North Sea.

    If the £170bn refers to excess profits made worldwide, then it’s not clear how the UK government would be able to tax these.

    Read more here

  4. Anthem seen as evidence Labour has changedpublished at 11:38 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Jonathan Blake
    BBC political correspondent

    Media caption,

    God Save the King sung at Labour conference

    It was an unusual start to the Labour Party conference, when the national anthem was sung and Sir Keir Starmer took to the platform to pay tribute to the Queen.

    It's not something everyone here thought was needed.

    But the fact that the anthem was sung and that a minute's silence was observed without protest or incident is being seen by those close to the Starmer as proof that Labour has changed.

  5. What's coming up at Labour's party conference?published at 11:30 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Angela RaynerImage source, Re
    Image caption,

    Angela Rayner's speech will be a key moment on Sunday

    Labour's party conference is taking place from Sunday to Wednesday in Liverpool and will see four days of speeches and debate among the party faithful.

    Today, the conference opened with a historic singing of the national anthem. There's also a speech from deputy leader Angela Rayner on workers' rights and conditions.

    Monday will hear a speech by shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves at noon that will be closely watched for further details on how Labour sees its green energy investments working.

    The main set-piece event of the week is on Tuesday. Keir Starmer will speak at 2pm in what will be a widely televised moment in which the Labour leader will effectively pitch his credentials as a future prime minister.

    Among Wednesday's highlights will be an address from and as-yet-unspecified "international speaker".

  6. Starmer makes patriotism key part of his leadershippublished at 11:13 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Nick Eardley
    Chief political correspondent

    I’m in the conference hall, where for the first time in decades (maybe ever) the Labour conference has started with a rendition of the national anthem. Sir Keir Starmer's first speech in the hall was a tribute to Queen Elizabeth II.

    The hall is busy. Members have been handed cards with the words to God Save the King. Members of the shadow cabinet were sitting in the front row during the tribute.

    Not everyone at this conference agrees to the decision to sing the anthem. But there were no heckles in the hall and the minute silence was observed impeccably.

    Keir Starmer has made patriotism a key part of his leadership. A source close to the Labour said a similar tribute would never have happened just a few years ago.

    They told me: "If you want proof the Labour Party has changed that was it."

  7. Anthem doesn't match Labour values, say republicanspublished at 10:55 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Union flagImage source, Getty Images

    In a departure from tradition, the Labour conference has opened with the singing of the national anthem.

    But this doesn't sit well with everyone in the party - with one Labour republican saying that while it was "reasonable" to mark the passing of Elizabeth II, he did not expect it to be sung again.

    Nick Wall told the BBC that it would be a one-off because "Labour is for the many not the few".

  8. Labour Party conference beginspublished at 10:49 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Labour's Party conference has just got under way in Liverpool, opening with the national anthem, as a mark of respect for the death of the Queen.

    Coming up we'll have a rundown on what to expect, but the keynote speech today will be from deputy leader Angela Rayner who's expected to outline a new Fair Work Standard.

  9. Starmer more comfortable than last year but still faces Labour tensionspublished at 10:40 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Laura Kuenssberg
    Presenter, Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg

    Sir Keir Starmer arrived in Liverpool a much more confident leader than this time last year when he was still trying to face down threats inside the party from the left.

    There are still uncomfortable tensions over picket lines and striking workers, and he won't do what some others want which is to reverse all of the Conservatives tax cuts.

    He also admitted that under his big new green plan some oil and gas might still be needed by 2030.

    But this morning it felt like we saw two men on very different missions - and a clear shape of the arguments that are likely to run at speed until the next election.

  10. Three days after his mini-budget, Kwarteng hints at something biggerpublished at 10:34 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Laura Kuenssberg
    Presenter, Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg

    Having spoken to Kwasi Kwarteng on our show this morning, what's so noticeable is how much the new chancellor wanted you to know his dramatic announcements from this week are the start of something huge.

    He claimed repeatedly his tax cuts will help people "across the board" - although there is no question the richest are going to gain the most from his decisions.

    But he certainly gave the impression of a man in a hurry - although he wouldn't engage in any talk of the markets' grim reaction to his statement on Friday.

    His opponents are likely to note he wouldn't say he was worried about inflation - a marked difference to his predecessor Rishi Sunak who had flagged the risk early on and tried to highlight the possibility far earlier than the former PM wanted to acknowledge.

    Laura Kuenssberg typing after the show
  11. Starmer: Labour would reverse cut to top tax ratepublished at 10:23 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    StarmerImage source, PA Media

    As we've just heard - Labour's Keir Starmer has pledged to reverse the government's cut to the top rate of income tax, saying the move was "the wrong choice" during a cost-of-living crisis.

    He told the BBC's Sunday With Laura Kuenssberg programme:

    Quote Message

    I do not think that the choice to have tax cuts for those that are earning hundreds of thousands of pounds is the right choice when our economy is struggling the way it is, working people are struggling in the way they are... that is the wrong choice.

    But Sir Keir said he supported the decision to cut the basic rate of tax from 20% to 19% as this would "reduce the tax burden on working people".

    Read our full take here.

  12. The political dividing line: How to achieve growthpublished at 10:15 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Nick Eardley
    Chief political correspondent

    The show's over - here are a few things that struck me from the interviews.

    Let's take Sir Keir Starmer first.

    He has committed to keeping the expensive cut to the basic rate of income tax if he is prime minister. The two main parties now agree the basic rate should come down.

    But Sir Keir believes the political battle is over whether those on high salaries should get an extra cut. Labour has committed to reversing the decision to abolish the additional rate of income tax - believing it to be unfair.

    And Sir Keir is feeling more optimistic about his electoral prospects. He says there is now a belief that Labour can form the next government.

    Next, the chancellor.

    This government is showing no signs it is spooked by the market reaction to Friday's fiscal statement. It is determined, confident in its strategy and is not going to change course.

    In fact, all the signs are that ministers are preparing to go further. There could be more changes on tax, immigration rules and beyond.

    The political dividing lines are drawn. The debate over how to achieve economic growth - and how to do it fairly - will dominate the political landscape. This has been a hugely important few days in British politics.

  13. What did the panel make of Kwarteng interview?published at 10:10 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Iceland boss Richard Walker says the chancellor's intervention is pleasing for business, and brings certainty on energy costs that is essential. "All we want to do is open shops, invest in local communities, create jobs and pay tax".

    Economist Gerard Lyons says that since 2008, Western Europe has been in a low growth phase. Previous approaches have failed, the economist adds, but he supports the government's pro-growth strategy. It is not just cutting taxes, it's about investment, innovation and infrastructure, he adds.

    The TUC's Frances Grady disagrees, saying the UK has the lowest corporation tax and lowest growth in the G7. The chancellor, she says, didn't answer how lifting the cap on bankers bonuses, driving down nurses and teachers' pay and attacking workers' rights going to help build growth.

  14. Kwarteng says home secretary looking at issue of immigrationpublished at 10:01 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    It's not about relaxing immigration rules, it's about controlling it in a way which benefits the UK, Kwarteng says in response to reports the government wants to make it easier for firms to hire from overseas.

    You would add jobs, Kuenssberg says, but would you add occupations where it would be easier to come to the UK? The home secretary will be making a statement on this in the next few weeks, the chancellor replies.

    What about scrapping the working time directive which limits what people can work each week? Would that help grow the economy, the chancellor is asked?

    Kwarteng sidesteps the question saying "other colleagues will make statements in the coming weeks".

    But if this is a government which wants to be radical, doesn't that mean scrapping things like the directive and environment rules, Kuenssberg asks.

    Too often the process takes too long but you don't change the standards, the chancellor says.

  15. Is it a good time to be rich in the UK?published at 09:57 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Kwarteng is asked about analysis of Friday's tax changes which suggest most people will be worse off.

    But Kwarteng says that the country can't carry on with "70-year tax highs" - and that's what the PM campaigned on, "which is why on Friday I changed that".

    He says people should be able to keep more of their own money.

    I really believe people should be able to thrive and that was what Friday was all about, he adds.

    Kwarteng is asked: Is it a good time to be rich in the UK, because the tax changes favour the people at the top?

    He disagrees, saying the changes he announced will benefit people across the board.

  16. Relaxed about borrowing to cut taxpublished at 09:56 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Nick Eardley
    Chief political correspondent

    You can't borrow forever, admits the chancellor.

    But this is a government that is very relaxed about increasing borrowing to subsidise bills and cut tax. It is in the medium term that Mr Kwarteng says he wants to bring debt down.

    That isn't a position that sits well with everyone.

    Many Tory MPs are uncomfortable with spiralling borrowing. Behind the scenes, backbenchers are nervous about this strategy.

    Remember it's a big departure from the coalition years under David Cameron, where the Conservative Party said it was important to bring the deficit down and watch every penny being spent.

  17. Kwarteng won't rule out further borrowingpublished at 09:56 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Kuenssberg presses the chancellor on the costly intervention to freeze energy bills, saying the government is borrowing hugely to fund this. Is there a limit on borrowing, she asks?

    Obviously you can't borrow forever," he says. "That's why on Friday I was very specific and careful to say we have a medium term fiscal plan."

    We've had two massive shocks to the economy - Covid and the invasion of Ukraine - and we had to respond, he says. We are committed to net debt to GDP to be falling over time, he says, and promises more detail on that.

    Kwarteng says he can't possibly say that if there is a huge, extreme event, we won't borrow to deal with it. That is what we have done he adds.

    If you look at the most advanced G7 economies, our net debt to GDP figure is the second lowest, the chancellor says.

  18. Kwarteng has thrown economic plan of last government to shredderpublished at 09:52 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Nick Eardley
    Chief political correspondent

    Kwasi Kwarteng has thrown the economic plan of the last government in the shredder.

    And this morning - he's continuing that. Increasing tax during a cost of living crisis was a "perverse" argument he says. He was "perplexed by the approach".

    Kwarteng was known to have concerns about National Insurance rises. But remember he was business secretary in the last government - so signed up to the plans under cabinet collective responsibility. As did the Prime Minister Liz Truss.

  19. UK economy has faced unprecedented events, says Kwartengpublished at 09:48 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Have you confused the British public? Kuenssberg asks the chancellor

    She says that he is trying to pump money into the economy by cutting taxes, but the Bank of England is worries about inflation and is raising interest rates.

    Kwarteng responds that the government had to change tack, because the economy has been buffeted by two unprecedented events - the Covid pandemic and Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

    Is he worried about inflation? Kwarteng says he meets the governor of the Bank of England regularly but "you cannot tax your way to growth".

  20. Kwarteng asked about the slide of the poundpublished at 09:47 British Summer Time 25 September 2022

    Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng

    The first question to Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng is about the "difficult winter" Britain is facing.

    He says there are huge concerns about energy bills and that the government has just made a "huge intervention". Most of Friday's mini-Budget was centred around that he adds.

    But isn't he nervous about the economic reaction, the slide in value of the pound for instance, Kuenssberg asks.

    The chancellor says he's focussed on growing the economy, on "a front-footed approach to growth" that will help business get back on its feet and "get the country moving".

    Kwarteng says he doesn't comment on market movements and he wants to look at the medium and long term. "The growth plan is our focus," he adds.