Summary

  • Prime Minister Rishi Sunak confirms a review of Post Office prosecutions and powers after the Horizon IT scandal saw hundreds "wrongfully treated"

  • He says it is an "appalling miscarriage of justice" and it is "important those people get the justice they deserve"

  • The PM defends his scrutiny of the controversial Rwanda asylum scheme while chancellor after BBC reported he had doubts

  • Strikes in England's NHS have hindered work to cut waiting times for patients, Sunak adds

  • He was being interviewed days after suggesting the next UK general election will come "in the second half of this year"

  • Labour leader Keir Starmer accused the PM of "dithering and delaying", while Lib Dem leader Ed Davey said Sunak had "bottled" it

  1. Thanks for joining uspublished at 12:10 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Emily McGarvey
    Live reporter

    That's a wrap. We're bringing our live coverage to a close now but we'll be back next week when Laura Kuenssberg will be quizzing Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer.

    Just a reminder that if you missed this morning's programme, or indeed want to catch up on other episodes, you can watch back on BBC iPlayer.

    • You can read more about Rishi Sunak denying that he doubted the Rwanda plan here
    • The prime minister also confirmed that the government is considering measures to clear all Post Office victims - you can read more on that here

    Today's page was brought to by Nadia Ragozhina, Ali Abbas Ahmadi, Samuel Horti and me.

    See you next time!

  2. Nursing union says PM 'incorrect' on pay dispute settlementspublished at 12:01 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Unions have criticised Prime Minister Rishi Sunak for "incorrectly" claiming the government has settled pay disputes with nurses, consultants and speciality doctors.

    Speaking to Laura Kuenssberg earlier, Sunak said the government had reached a pay resolution with every other part of the NHS, except for junior doctors.

    Royal College of Nursing (RCN) chief executive Pat Cullen says Sunak is "forgetting basic facts" and is wrong because the union's members had rejected his pay offer and remain in dispute.

    Cullen says the government needs to "get its act together" and it "must offer nursing staff a far better pay offer this year".

    Quote Message

    Just this week, nursing staff in Northern Ireland announced they will be taking to picket lines over pay. Rishi Sunak's claims about waiting lists increasing because of industrial action have been debunked, but the fact remains they have risen on his watch."

    Pat Cullen, Royal College of Nursing chief executive

    Sunak earlier urged medics to "come back round the table so we can get everyone back in and we can start getting the waiting lists falling".

  3. Analysis

    Sunak wants the country to 'stick with the plan' - but will they?published at 11:53 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Laura Kuenssberg
    Presenter, Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg

    Britain's Prime Minister Rishi Sunak appears on 'Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg' in London, Britain January 7, 2024.

    Alongside the prime minister’s promise to help those caught up in the Post Office scandal was the hint of what might be emblazoned on social media, leaflets and lecterns in the months to come. "Stick with the plan", for "long term change" sounded like an election slogan in waiting.

    Rishi Sunak said the country was starting to show signs of turning in the right direction, with inflation coming down, and cuts to National Insurance that have just been brought in.

    Rishi Sunak was reluctant to admit that he’d ever had misgivings about the concept of sending migrants to Rwanda, although seemed to accept he had questions about how much the plan would cost when he was the Chancellor.

    But he spelled out again why he now believes, as prime minister, that the controversial scheme was the right one.

    Things perhaps get tricky though for Rishi Sunak when you start looking at some of the realities of what "sticking with the plan" means.

    He wants to boast about taxes coming down. It’s much more complicated than that, and many people will not see a cut at all and in the long term; this has been a tax raising government.

    You can work out the effect on you here.

    The Rwanda scheme has to get through Parliament again, and then the courts, and he would not give a plain answer over a technical, but crucial point, if he would ever ignore a so-called Rule 39, instruction from the European Courts.

    The prime minister also said that he wanted to cut the numbers of people claiming benefits, who could potentially go to work, except the government's own figures suggest that is set to rise further.

    Sunak also said he had reached agreement with every other part of the NHS aside from the junior doctors. Except, when it comes to nurses, they called off the strikes but are still in dispute.

    But it is clear from this morning that Rishi Sunak is likely to go to the polls towards the end of the year with a message of continuity, not a bold new direction.

    He’ll ask you to "stick with the plan", it will be up to the country to decide whether to stick with him.

  4. Important to speed up Post Office appeals - Sir Bob Neilpublished at 11:41 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Sir Bob Neil, chair of the Justice Select Committee, says it is really important to speed up both the compensation and appeals processes for people caught up in the Post Office scandal.

    Speaking to the BBC, he says: "A way forward in this case is certainly the one that the Justice Secretary Alex Chalk is looking at which is inviting the Crown Prosecution Service to take over the prosecution.

    “The only thing we need to bear in mind is this: the director of public prosecutions has to take that decision themselves, they have to do it independently – I’m sure they’d look at it, they have to look at each case independently on its merits. To do that I think you’d probably need extra resources," he adds.

    He says the Court of Appeal would have to make time to hear these cases the Ministry of Justice would need to agree to make judges available, "and that might mean other cases going further down the queue".

  5. BMA says PM's comments on pay disputes are 'incorrect'published at 11:35 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    We've just heard from the British Medical Association (BMA) who says the prime minister's comments that pay disputes with consultants and speciality doctors had been settled were "incorrect".

    When speaking about the junior doctors' strike earlier on the programme, Rishi Sunak said that the government had reached a resolution with "every other part of the NHS", including "consulting doctors [and] speciality doctors".

    In a post on X, external, the BMA - a trade union for doctors and medical students - says it has put the government's offer to its members and it is awaiting their decision.

    "We're deeply disappointed the government hasn’t made a credible offer we can also put to junior doctors," the BMA says.

  6. Sunak: Reforms needed so 'everyone who can work, does work'published at 11:25 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Rishi SunakImage source, BBC Sport

    Earlier on the show, Rishi Sunak told Laura Kuenssberg that the welfare system needed to be reformed to ensure that "everyone who can work, does work".

    He said he was concerned with the “very significant rise” in the number of people deemed unfit to work, and added that his government would bring forward reforms to review who is eligible to sign off from work.

    He added that he wanted to reward "hard work with tax cuts”.

    Baroness Louise Casey said she didn't take from Sunak's comments that "there was an acceptance that things are as bad for people as they are", and added that if the government was going to crack down on welfare, "why haven't they done it by now?"

    "There he is selling nonsense, it just rang hollow, one thing after the other," she said.

  7. Post Office scandal slowed down by bureaucracy - Arbuthnotpublished at 11:09 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Earlier, Sunak was asked about the Post Office scandal, when more than 700 sub-postmasters were accused of wrongdoing based on information from a faulty accounting system, Horizon, between 1999 and 2015.

    James Arbuthnot, who led the campaign in parliament on behalf of the sub postmasters and mistresses, and now sits on the government's Post Office Horizon Compensation Advisory board, tells the BBC that bureaucracy has to be cut through.

    So far, over £120 million in compensation has been paid out to wrongfully convicted postmasters. Arbuthnot says public servants are working as hard as they can but they're being slowed down by the bureaucracy.

    Speaking to BBC Radio 4, Arbuthnot says: "I sit on the compensation advisory board and we are supported by excellent civil servants in the department of business and trade...there are good people working in the Post Office as well trying to get things right.

    "But overall bureaucracy and the slow speed in doing everything has got to be cut through," he adds.

    "The combination of the Court of Appeal turning down some requests to overturn convictions, and the slow speed of the bureaucracy, we need to deal with in a much more straightforward way than we are doing at the moment."

  8. Watch: Guess the impressions that ended the showpublished at 10:51 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Media caption,

    Watch: Guess the impressions that ended the show

    Next week Keir Starmer will be joining Laura on the show but as today's programme ended, she asked the panel on their thoughts to assess Labour's position at the beginning of this election year.

    Fraser Nelson said that if Labour is going to offer a significant difference, Starmer needs to look at his long term economic plan, which Nelson said has just fallen apart.

    He was referring Labour's plan to spend an extra £28bn a year on green investments, which is facing questions over whether this could be watered down further.

    Baroness Louise Casey said her advice to Starmer was similar to Rishi Sunak: "Tell the truth, get your facts completely straight and don't sell people a pub".

    And actor Jon Culshaw closed the show with impressions of some other big political hitters from across the pond in the US - can you guess who?

  9. Watch: We'll make sure children are in school - Labourpublished at 10:39 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Shadow education secretary Bridget Phillipson said parents shouldn't take kids out of school for holidays.

    One in five children are out of school and it's set to rise to one in four, said Phillipson.

    She said she understood it's tough for parents, but it's "really important" that children are in school regularly.

    Phillipson was speaking ahead of Labour's education plan coming next week.

  10. What happened on today's show?published at 10:31 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Laura Kuenssberg with Rishi Sunak

    That was a jam-packed hour of interviews! In case you missed anything, here's a summary of what was said today:

    Prime Minister Rishi Sunak

    • The PM dismissed claims that he had hesitations about the Rwanda policy and said that, as chancellor, he "scrutinised" all plans
    • He said junior doctors already have the best pay package in the NHS, and that they need to end their strike action
    • Sunak said everyone was "shocked" by the Post Office scandal, and that anyone affected should come forward and talk to the relevant bodies
    • He asserted that the country has turned a corner, and that his plan is starting to deliver the "long-term change the country needs" - which he hopes voters will see ahead of the upcoming election

    Former postmaster Lee Castleton

    • Castleton, who was falsely prosecuted for fraud, compared the process of getting justice from the Post Office to "war"
    • He complained that the Post Office is in charge of handing out compensation, after allegedly wrongly prosecuting the postmasters and postmistresses in the first place

    Shadow education secretary Bridget Phillipson

    • The Labour MP said "persistent absenteeism" in schools is a huge issue, and took aim at "irresponsible parents" who take their kids out of school for holidays
    • She said Labour was "modelling" how it could cut university fees for those on lower and middle incomes if elected to power
  11. Lib Dems: 'Slippery' Sunak should come clean on Rwandapublished at 10:23 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    The Liberal Democrats have responded to Sunak's denial this morning that he had doubts about the government's Rwanda policy when he was chancellor.

    Lib Dem Home Affairs spokesperson Alistair Carmichael MP labels the prime minister "slippery Sunak", and says he knows that the scheme only throws more taxpayer money "onto the ever growing bonfire of Conservative government waste".

    Carmichael claims Sunak is being forced to pursuing polices that "he knows don't work", saying he is "prime minister in name only".

  12. PPE fraudsters should feel full force of the law - Sunakpublished at 10:17 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Let's catch you up on a couple of other lines from Rishi Sunak's earlier interview with Laura Kuenssberg.

    Sunak said those who took advantage of the PPE system and defrauded taxpayers should feel the full force of the law.

    "We were all going through an awful time as a country and the job was to get PPE to those on the front line who needed it," Sunak added.

    "Everyone will remember how stressful that was and if people were, as I said, trying to take advantage of that system and defraud the taxpayer, completely and utterly wrong.

    "It's appalling and we should pursue them with the full force of the law."

  13. The show is over - but stay tuned for analysis, clips, and reactionpublished at 10:08 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg has now ended, but our coverage doesn't stop there.

    Stay with us as we bring you more interview highlights, reaction, analysis and video clips.

  14. Phillipson says Labour 'modelling' changes to university fees for low earnerspublished at 10:06 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Kuenssberg points out that Labour leader Keir Starmer has backed down from an earlier promise to scrap university fees. So will fees go down?

    Phillipson says the economy has been in a "total mess", and that the university funding system is one of those "really big challenges" that a Labour government will inherit if elected.

    She says she is concerned that the system is putting more pressure of low- and middle-income earners, adding that she is "determined that a Labour government will deliver a progressive system."

    She says students are working more hours in retail jobs that are affecting their university education and internships.

    She says there is modelling being done to ensure Labour can deliver a more "progressive system", where lower and middle income earners pay less for university.

  15. 'Persistent absenteeism is biggest barrier we are facing' - Phillipsonpublished at 10:03 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Bridget Phillipson says she'll been setting out Labour's long term plan this week on how to make sure high and rising standards are a feature of the school system.

    Unless we have the children in school we can't deliver that, she says.

    Laura says that, in September, Phillipson said it was not helpful to lecture parents and call them irresponsible, without supporting them.

    Phillipson replies that was to do with fines and penalties, but if she was education secretary now, she would say to parents that every day at school matters and she wants to make sure "we give our children the best start in life".

    "They cant receive a good education if they aren't there... persistent absenteeism is biggest barrier we are facing as a country now. "

    Phillipson
  16. Labour's Phillipson asked about her comments on 'irresponsible' parentspublished at 10:00 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Bridget Phillipson, Labour's shadow education secretary, is up next in the hot seat.

    She's asked about her comments to the Sunday Times this morning, where she said that irresponsible parents are harming kids. How many parents do you think are irresponsible, Kuenssberg asks?

    One in 5 children are out of school and it's set to rise to one in four, says Phillipson. She says she understands its tough for parents, but its "really important" that children are in school regularly.

    She says Labour will guarantee mental health counsellors, among other things, if elected to power.

    Kuenssberg pushes Phillipson further - how many parents are being irresponsible?

    Phillipson doesn't reply directly, saying parents taking their kids out of school is damaging to all the other children.

  17. Former postmaster: 'No matter how hard it gets we need to keep pushing for justice'published at 09:57 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Lee Castleton is asked whether he has confidence that the issue might finally get resolved. Laura asks specifically if he has confidence that people are now paying attention, in light of a new ITV drama on the subject.

    He says it's been very difficult to "push our cause". "We are just people from your village shop, your local post office. [It's] hard to get people to believe."

    Laura asks if he's angry.

    "Very. Really really angry," Castleton replies.

    Castleton says that he wants people to "put pressure on people to help us. We've had fantastic people help us, and continue to do so".

    "It's been very lonely being the only one... but now we're together in this and we just need to keep walking forward, no matter how hard it gets we need to keep pushing," he adds.

    Lee Castleton
  18. Former postmaster asked what he thinks of Sunak's commentspublished at 09:54 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Lee Castleton is a former postmaster who says his life has been ruined by the Post Office, as he was falsely prosecuted for fraud.

    What did he make of Sunak's promises to help sort things out with the victims of the scandal, Kuenssberg asks?

    "It's such a complicated thing and so combative," Castleton says, speaking from Scarborough.

    He complains that the Post Office and DBT is in charge of paying out the victims - after prosecuting the postmasters and postmistresses in the first place.

    He says the victims are "traumatised" by the whole process, describing it as a "war".

    "We're just normal people", he says, and points out that it's so difficult to get justice.

    Castleton adds that it should be taken out of the "hands of the people that really caused it".

    "This is not a computer issue, this is a people issue."

  19. What did Sunak say about Post Office scandal?published at 09:51 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    Let's recap what Sunak said about the Post Office scandal.

    He was asked by Laura: "There are reports today that your justice secretary is considering looking at either exonerating everybody - that's a recommendation that's already been made - or taking the Post Office's ability to investigate and prosecute away? Would you like to see that happen? Will you take extra measures on top of those?"

    And here's Sunak's reply:

    Quote Message

    The justice secretary is looking at the things you've described. It wouldn't be right to pre-empt that process, obviously there's legal complexity in all of those things. He is looking at exactly those areas that you've described.

    Quote Message

    It's right we find every which way we can do to try and make this right for these people who were wrongfully treated at the time. Compensation is a part of that but there may be legal things that may be possible as well, and that's what the justice secretary is looking at."

  20. WATCH: Sunak dismisses claim he had doubts over Rwanda schemepublished at 09:46 Greenwich Mean Time 7 January

    During this morning's interview, the PM said he didn't have doubts over the Rwanda policy during his previous role as chancellor.

    It was his job to scrutinise the policy before allocating funds, he says, just like any other proposal that hit his desk.

    Watch what he told Laura Kuenssberg below.