Rob Gowans says Citizens Advice Scotland have asked the UK government to change the policy in light of the evidence.

Committee convener Sandra White asks if CAS would prefer the policy was scrapped altogether.

Mr Gowans says yes.

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SNP MSP George Adam says when you hear a Tory representative say third sector organisations have to run to the court he would ask what kind of environment are they working in.

Mr Adam says: "Let's get the policy right."

Engender executive director Emma Ritch says it is vitally important to get policy right at the start and highlights the profound weaknesses in the two child limit and the lack of a quality impact assessment.

Conservative MSP Gordon Lindhurst says it is easy to criticise a policy but harder to provide a better alternative.

Emma Ritch says Engender has been involved in a coalition looking at social security and will scrutinise the forthcoming social security legislation in Scotland.

Rob Gowans from Citizens Advice Scotland says his organisation has submitted substantial evidence to the Scottish government consultation.

SNP MSP Ben Macpherson raises the cost of a judicial review for organisations and says the focus should remain on the policy at source.

Mr Macpherson says shouldn't pressure be brought to bear on the UK government to abolish the policy.

Engender executive director Emma Ritch says: "Yeah, absolutely."

Ms Ritch says in Northern Ireland there are devastating consequences due to the policy and they would not benefit at all from any Scottish mitigation.

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Engender executive director Emma Ritch says the question of mitigation is interesting..

Ms Ritch says there is a lot of discussion with the UK government still to run.

She says there are a number of questions raised that are still at the discussion stage of.

Ms Ritch says we have not yet determined whether it is most in women's interests to propose mitigation.

Mr Tomkins says legal actions in the court have been a successful means of putting brakes on welfare policies.

The Conservative MSP says it is a useful avenue for the witnesses to think about.

He says the two child cap on tax credits is a test of the Smith Commission, as a range of benefits have been devolved in full to Holyrood.

Mr Tomkins says the Scottish Parliament has the power to top up the benefit and he ask what pressure are the witnesses bringing to bear on the Scottish government.

Conservative MSP Adam Tomkins says the case against the two child cap makes it sound to him that the policy is illegal.

Mr Tomkins says the arguments are legal points and he asks what action the witnesses are taking to challenge the policy in court.

Engender executive director Emma Ritch: "I think we are considering our options in that regard."

Jo Ozga from Scottish Women's Aid agrees, saying the first response has been writing to Damian Green.

She says further action needs to be developed.

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Jo Ozga from Scottish Women's Aid says in America the exemptions for domestic violence were not used by women.

Ms Ozga says the privacy deprivations meant they did not go on to access other support.

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Engender executive director Emma Ritch says social security payments to parents are crucial to ensure children have an adequate standard of living.

Rob Gowans from Citizens Advice Scotland says there has probably been 7,000 children born since the start of April.

Mr Gowans says around 150 children are born every day in Scotland and the numbers of people who have a third child will grow.

He says CAS gives a lot of advice to people in work on child tax credits and Universal Credit.

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Labour MSP Pauline McNeill raises concerns in the Catholic community.

Engender executive director Emma Ritch says the churches and many faith organisations raised strong concerns with the DWP over the policy.

Ms Ritch says the DWP consulted on the exemptions for one month.

She says there is a question around the evidence base which the government is acting on and she says there is no impact assessment or evidence.

Ms Rtich says the UK government did not adopt the exception where contraception has failed.

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Engender executive director Emma Ritch says she is not aware of any organisation in Scotland that is willing to be a third party referrer.

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MSPs have condemned changes to child tax credits and a controversial provision known as the "rape clause".

UK government welfare reforms cut child tax credit and Universal Credit for third or subsequent children.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon led a Holyrood debate saying parliament should be "fundamentally opposed" to the two-child policy.

However, Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson defended the plans on grounds of financial responsibility.

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The welfare changes, which were announced in 2015 and came into effect from 6 April, limit tax credits to the first two children in a family, with exceptions for adoptions, those involved in kinship care and for children born as a result of "non-consensual conception".

The terms of the latter exemption have proved controversial, with protest rallies held in Glasgow and Edinburgh and fiery exchanges in the Holyrood chamber.

These continued in the Scottish government-led debate, which saw a series of impassioned speeches - including one where Kezia Dugdale silenced the chamber by reading out an email from a rape victim.

Read more here.

• What is the 'rape clause'?
• Look back on the debate on Holyrood Live

Jo Ozga from Scottish Women's Aid says the exemption contravenes women's rights to privacy and the form requires much more than just singing a form.

Ms Ozga says the form requires the woman to says the child has been conceived as a result of rape and having to contemplate filling a form saying that causes great trauma.

She says the last thing women want their child to know is they were conceived as a result of rape.

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Jo Ozga from Scottish Women's Aid says the two child limit assumes equal control over whether to have children or not.

Ms Ozga says sexual violence and rape in abusive relationships are common and these women do not have control over their reproduction.

Rob Gowans from Citizens Advice Scotland raises concerns about times when families break up or someone falls ill.

Mr Gowans says there is a particular impact on lone parents who have three or more children.

He says 57% of people affected by the benefit cap are lone parents and this leads to a bit of a "double whammy".

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Engender executive director Emma Ritch says there are a number of weaknesses in the development of the two child limit policy.

Ms Ritch says there has been very little clarity about the policy and its impact.

She says there is very little evidence to back the policy.

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Jo Ozga from Scottish Women's Aid says the letter to Damian Hinds spells out a lot of the concerns and highlights the lack of privacy.

Rob Gowans from Citizens Advice Scotland says losing entitlement to tax credits will lead to a loss of income.

He says people will be driven further into hardship.