Stuart Valentine from Relationships Scotland says there is a gap in the system with the courts not providing enough information to the contact centres.

Tory MSP Edward Mountain says it is a "huge gap".

Mr Valentine agrees.

He says he would support a process of regulation.

Mr Valentine says the government provides £166,000 of funding per year for 46 centres across Scotland which is a "small amount"

He says contact centres also receive £700,000 per year from the Big Lottery and there is some other charity money.

He says "this is not a lot of money for the work we do".

Tory MSP Edward Mountain asks if subtle coercive and abusive behaviour continues at the contact centre.

Mr Valentines says where there is supervised contact the staff are very alert to tricks or schemes people use to get information from the child.

Pauline McIntyre from the Children & Young People's Commissioner Scotland says research has shown that it tended to be younger children going to contact centres.

Ms McIntyre says she also had a case where a disabled child was treated differently to its siblings.

She says the siblings were afraid of their father and it was deemed inappropriate for them to see him but the disabled child wasn't asked for a view and was still asked to go.

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Mhairi McGowan from ASSIST says the vast majority of clients have been through supported contact not supervised contact.

Ms McGowan says there are gaps that we need to plug.

She says she accepts there are funding issues.

Ms McGowan says it is crucial that the gaps be addressed as they allow abuse to take place.

Stuart Valentine from Relationships Scotland says in the vast majority of cases there is a nervousness to begin with from children in contact centres but once that first hurdle is overcome it gets better.

Committee convener Johann Lamont asks what proportion of children going to contact centres have been identified as being in a home where there has been domestic abuse.

Mr Valentine says around 10% and then there are supervised visits.

She says there is a fundamental difference between supported and supervised visits.

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SNP MSP Angus MacDonald asks if there should be a minimum ratio of staff at the contact centres.

Stuart Valentine from Relationships Scotland says often there is too little information from the courts and it is a key failing.

Mr Valentine says they are left in the dark about many of the issues but they can still focus on the contact's safety.

He says there would be two members of staff around supervised contact.

Pauline McIntyre from the Children & Young People's Commissioner Scotland says children are victims in their own right whether they have experienced the abuse or witnessed it in a "toxic environment."

Ms McIntyre says this may put a child's mental health at risk and then a parent may have to take the child to a contact centre and hand them over to someone they don't know to go and see the other parent.

She says the vast majority of domestic abuse instances are coercive control and for the perpetrator to allow a child to live in that environment is a parenting choice.

Parental rights and responsibilities (PRRs)

The Children (Scotland) Act 1995 (‘the 1995 Act’) sets out a range of parental rights and responsibilities (‘PRRs’) in respect of children living in Scotland.

Parental responsibilities exist where practicable and in the best interests of the child.

PRRs include the right to have the child live with a person having PRRs.

Furthermore, where the child does not live with that person, there is a PRR relating to contact with that child (1995 Act, section 1(1)(c) and section 2(1)(a) and (c)).

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Who has PRRs?

Some people automatically have PRRs in respect of a child.

These include the child’s mother and, in some circumstances, the child’s father. 1

Otherwise all (or some of) the PRRs can be acquired by several methods, including by application to the court under section 11 of the 1995 Act.2

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Stuart Valentine from Relationships Scotland says the Scottish government supports his organisation but the funding does not go very far.

Mr Valentine says to bring about a step change then the funding would need to be increased.

Ian Maxwell from Families Need Fathers says he was involved in an appeal from a few years ago where it was a two-way dispute without domestic abuse and it was ruled that the father should not see the child.

Mr Maxwell says that was overturned after appeal and decided that it was in the best interest of the child to see both parents.

Ian Maxwell from Families Need Fathers says parental alienation is a very difficult area.

Mr Maxwell says it is really vital you talk to children several times and build up confidence with a child, to avoid them only saying what the residential parent last said.

He the judges are working very hard and are often over cautious when awarding contact.

Mr Maxwell says contact centres don't get guaranteed funding and the committee should support increased and secure funding for contact centres.

Ian Maxwell from Families Need Fathers says he is going to speak up for the judiciary and they are doing difficult jobs.

Mr Maxwell says a sheriff must decide whether a domestic abuse allegation is true or not which is very difficult.

He says some of those allegations are made to gain custody of children and there is nothing in law that says parents must see their parents.

Dr Marsha Scott from Scottish Women's Aid says there is some good practice to look back on and cites the Glasgow Specialist Domestic Abuse Court.

Dr Scott says the sheriffs had training and the outcomes were so much better.

She says we could say if you are going to hear a domestic abuse case or a case around the rights of children then you should have training.

Dr Marsha Scott from Scottish Women's Aid says she is sure there are some fantastic practices going on in contact centre but she must challenge things she has witnessed.

Dr Scott says she is aware of a case where children were being told there are sweeties in the room or that their mother is in the room and, of course, that is not the case.

She says women are afraid to tell the truth because they are afraid they will be sanctioned and held in contempt.

Women have been held in contempt and jailed for preventing contact, says Mhairi McGowan from ASSIST.

Ms McGowan says sheriffs assume when women says there has been domestic abuse they are lying.

She says lawyers tell women not to raise the issue of domestic abuse.

Mhairi McGowan from ASSIST says in terms of report writers, there is no mandatory training in domestic abuse.

Ms McGowan says this must be thought of through the eyes of the child.

She says the child may not want to go and have been having nightmares then is forced to got o a centre and being told by someone they don't know that they have to go through and see dad.

Ms McGowan says generic training in domestic abuse will pick up the extreme cases but will not pick up the cases where there is manipulation.