Image source, bbc

SNP MSP Ruth Maguire says it is mainly carers and disability benefits that are being devolved and asks how , given that, social security could be enshrined in the Bill.

Judith Robertson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says that is an issue for many areas of legislation in Scotland.

Ms Robertson says enshrining the right to social security in law would make Scotland a world leader in this area.

She says there is an opportunity to do it really well here and the government is in that territory.

Jatin Haria from the Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights (CRER) says the Bill requires claimants to be consulted but not equality groups.

Mr Hairia says he would like to see that changed so equality groups are included.

Image source, bbc

Chris Oswald from the Equality and Human Rights Commission says he hopes the incorporation of principles on human rights would lead to a more anticipatory approach by the new agency.

Mr Oswald says there is an advantage in this.

Emma Ritch from Engender says there is a tension between the ambition of a charter that can be easily understood and something that is judicial.

Mr Tomkins asks if there will be an increase in litigation in the courts and, if so, how will that be paid for.

He asks if something on court litigation should be included in the financial memorandum for the Bill.

Judith Robertson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says it is difficult to say.

In February the government announced it intends to take a human rights based approach to the new system and the laws that shape it.

This includes introducing a new principle recognising social security as a human right, as well as a duty to create a ‘Charter’ (previously referred to as a ‘Claimant Charter’) in partnership with organisations and people that use the system, which will allow people to hold the government to account.

Judith Robertson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says the bill lacks clarity on the status of the charter.

Ms Robertson says in principle the charter could be really helpful.

Mr Tomkins says it would be nice to see it and Ms Robertson agrees.

She again says the right to social security should be enshrined in the Bill.

Chris Oswald from the Equality and Human Rights Commission says issues of advancing equality would be useful to have in the Bill.

Mr Oswald says "if you have a system which is focused on efficiency and value for money" it would be extremely helpful.

Ms Robertson says there must be the key principles in the Bill of:

• availability
• adequacy
• accessibility

Jatin Haria from the Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights (CRER) says he is in support of having a specific principle of equality.

Mr Haria says he hopes the committee will support having equality as a principle.

Judith Robertson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission says she believes parts of the Bill can be strengthened.

Ms Robertson says the submission details some of the changes she would like to see.

"The Bill should enshrine the right to social security in Scots law and, as it stands, the Bill does not do this."

Image source, bbc

Social Security Committee convener Sandra White asks what the witnesses thoughts are about including principles in the Bill.

Emma Ritch from Engender says there is a need to consider gender at all stages when considering what to do with the new powers coming to Scotland.

Ms Ritch says the Family Cap and 'Rape Clause' were the most acute examples of failing to take into account gender in welfare reform.

She says she welcomes the commitment to a human rights based approach.

Ms Ritch says the Bill should be amended to include the principle of non-discriminaton and equality.

The committee will now take evidence from:

Jatin Haria from the Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights (CRER), externalChris Oswald from the Equality and Human Rights Commission, externalEmma Ritch from Engender, externalJudith Robertson from the Scottish Human Rights Commission, external

You can read the submissions on the committee papers here., external

Image source, bbc

Tory MSP Adam Tomkins says there is the power for top-ups in the Bill but no provision for the Scottish government to create new benefits.

Mr Tomkins asks the witnesses to write to the committee about this as 30 seconds is not long enough.

The first evidence session concludes and we suspend for a minute before the second sesson starts.

Peter Kelly from The Poverty Alliance says when there is not a process of uprating then benefits can fall behind and that has been seen with the likes of JSA.

Mr Kelly says this does not help people out of poverty.

He says he believes uprating should be on the face of the Bill.

Green MSP Alison Johnstone says she is concerned about future proofing.

Ms Johnstone asks if an uprating mechanism should be on the face of the bill

John Dickie from the Child Poverty Action Group says: "There should be provision for annual uprating on the face of the Bill."

Mr Dickie says it should apply to all benefits covered by the legislation.

Labour MSP Pauline McNeill says she is interested to explore what should be in primary legislation in terms of supporting the claimant.

Ms McNeill says it seems the committee are going to have to spend a bit of time thinking exactly what advocacy means.

John Dickie from the Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland (CPAG) says there is a duty on ministers to make sure people are getting the financial support they are entitled to and that the system is working.

Dr Jim McCormick from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation says getting the assessment right is probably the biggest challenge.

Image source, PA

Jessica Burns from Social Security and Child Support says we very rarely ask a GP to write a report to say if someone meets a criteria because it can impact around a patient doctor relationship.

Ms Burns says there may be a way to access a person's medical records without having to get them in for a consultation.

She says some people with drug, alcohol and medical health problems may not engage with their GP and rely more on family members.

"It is a very complex area," she says.