Summary

  • The education committee takes evidence on the exam diet and curriculum and attainment trends

  • Transport, infrastructure, connectivity, and justice ministers face questions

  • The Scottish Tories lead a debate calling for the scrapping of standardised assessments for P1 pupils

  • A member's debate marks 10 years of BBC ALBA

  1. Background: Are they tests?published at 16:25 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Jamie McIvor
    BBC Scotland education correspondent

    It depends what you mean by a test. The government has stressed all along that the P1 assessments are not "high stakes testing". A child's performance in the assessment has no direct consequences for them - the child does not pass or fail the test and the results are not used to set or stream them although teachers may find diagnostic information useful.

    The fundamental purpose for the assessment is to gather benchmark data on the literacy and numeracy of children by the time they start their formal education - children from disadvantaged backgrounds can be around 18 months behind their peers from better off backgrounds. By carrying out assessments in P1 it's possible to get a sense of the point children have reached before schools or teachers could have made a difference.

    The assessments are marked automatically so teachers can get immediate feedback.

  2. Background: Can I withdraw my children from the assessments?published at 16:14 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Schools do not have to seek a parent's consent before the assessments take place.

    However, if a parent is in regular touch with their child's school, the topic may be brought up in conversation informally.

    Parents are not asked to give their consent before children take part in tests - as with much in education there is "presumed consent".

    Schools do not have a legal requirement to put every single child through the assessment.

    Guidance from the government released through Freedom of Information says the assessments are not mandated but the expectation is that all children will take part except in exceptional circumstances, for instance where a child has complex learning needs

    Jonhn SwinneyImage source, bbc
    Image caption,

    Mr Swinney repeatedly refused to say refused to say whether or not he would scrap the tests in the event of a government defeat today

    On Sunday Politics Scotland Education Secretary John Swinney was pressed by Gordon Brewer as to whether the tests were compulsary.

    Mr Swinney replied: "In statute there is nothing proscribed as a legal requirement of education other than religious observance."

    If a parent has concerns about there child being involved in these assessments they can raise the issues with schools, he says.

    The edcucation secretary explains only 94% of pupils took part in the P1 assessments and schools are obviously.

    He explained: "I would imagine that a head teacher faced with a parent who really did not want their child to take part in these standardised assessments, who had disscussed with them the merits of taking part in standardised assessments, would then agree not to put a child into those assessments, if that was the wish of the parents."

    He elucidated there is no legal right for parents to remove their child from the assessments, but it is not illegal for parents to boycott the tests, as called for by Scottish Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie.

  3. Postpublished at 16:12 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

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  4. Postpublished at 16:10 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

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  5. Background: How do tests for P1 pupils work?published at 16:09 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Jamie McIvor
    BBC Scotland education correspondent

    Pupils are assessed in reading, writing and numeracy in P1, P4, P7 and S3Image source, THINKSTOCK
    Image caption,

    Pupils are assessed in reading, writing and numeracy in P1, P4, P7 and S3

    Scotland's largest teaching union is calling for national assessments for P1 pupils to be scrapped.

    The assessments were introduced last year to gauge children's numeracy and literacy skills, but have been opposed by some teachers and politicians.

    The EIS believes the tests are inappropriate and has warned of a boycott if matters do not improve.

    The Scottish government says the tests are appropriate for five-year-olds and should be enjoyable for children.

    BBC Scotland education correspondent Jamie McIvor answers some common questions on the assessments ..........click here for everything you ever needed to know about the P1 assessments..

  6. Background: John Swinney 'committed' to assessments for P1 pupilspublished at 16:05 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    The new standardised tests assess pupils' literacy and numeracy skilImage source, PA
    Image caption,

    The new standardised tests assess pupils' literacy and numeracy skil

    Earlier this month Education Secretary John Swinney insisted the government is "committed" to assessments for P1 pupils despite fresh opposition calls to scrap them.

    The tests were introduced a year ago in a bid to collect more data on pupils to help inform teachers about progress.

    All of Holyrood's opposition parties oppose tests for the youngest pupils, and want to put this to a vote.

    But Mr Swinney said the tests were "vital" in making sure issues pupils might have were addressed "pronto".

    Meanwhile, fresh legal guidance sent to councils has underlined that parents have no legal right to withdraw their children from the tests.

    Campaigners have been urging parents to opt their children out of the computer-based assessments, but the guidance - issued jointly by the government and the Association of Directors of Education - says this is a discretionary matter for head teachers.

  7. 'It is little wonder that those in the front line are so frustrated'published at 15:59 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Labour MSP Johann LamontImage source, bbc
    Image caption,

    Labour MSP Johann Lamont

    Labour MSP Johann Lamont accuses the SNP of impuning those who express concerns about the asssessments, so that they do not have to adress the concerns themselves.

    The Labour MSP argues John Swinney's crticism of the Tories is that they are not being Tory enough.

    She says the assessment can be taken at any time over P1 and there was no clarity on the support for a child taking the test.

    The Labour MSP insists the assessment is not consistent and is not just part of the normal learning experience, in fact it disrupts the learning experience.

    Ms Lamont says: "It is little wonder that those in the front line are so frustrated with the approach of he Scottish government."

  8. Postpublished at 15:54 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

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  9. Background: Postcard campaign urges parents to boycott controversial P1 testspublished at 15:52 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    KidImage source, UPSTART SCOTLAND

    A campaign is encouraging parents to withdraw their children from new Primary 1 assessments.

    Upstart Scotland has produced special postcards for parents to hand in to schools.

    The Scottish government said parents have no legal right to withdraw their children from the assessments.

    But it added that schools do have discretion to decide whether children should take part.

    The standardised assessments in P1, P4, P7 and S3 were introduced across Scotland last year.

    The P1 tests are designed to measure the literacy and numeracy of children as they start off in school.

  10. 'We now have a standardised test that can be used by everyone across Scotland'published at 15:47 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    SNP MSP Clare AdamsonImage source, bbc
    Image caption,

    SNP MSP Clare Adamson

    SNP MSP Clare Adamson, who has just been appointed as the education committee convener, speaks now but not in that guise.

    Ms Adamson says: "We now have a standardised test that can be used by everyone across Scotland as a whole."

    The SNP MSP lists a number of councils who have used tests in primary one.

    She concludes "if there are improvements to be made we should make them" and not just take a political stance.

  11. P1 teachers will have a good grasp on pupil abilities without tests says Tory MSPpublished at 15:38 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Tory MSP Murdo Fraser
    Image caption,

    Tory MSP Murdo Fraser

    Tory MSP Murdo Fraser insists there is "great value" in standardised assessments further up in schools.

    But he questions whether they are "appropriate" at P1 level.

    "Any P1 teacher worth their salt will within a few weeks, if not indeed days, of new pupils starting in school, will have a very good grasp on their individual abilities."

    It is difficult to see what a standardised test would bring in addition to this, Mr Fraser states.

    We will vote today in the interest of our pupils, he concludes.

  12. 'What is the government's case for testing five year olds?'published at 15:37 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Teacher and pupilsImage source, Thinkstock

    Mr Scott says he has heard from plenty of teachers that the tests take more than an hour and they take time that the teacher could be spending with the whole classroom.

    He insists the practical case against testing five year olds is overwhelming.

    The Lib Dem MSP argues the language used against those who don't agree with the tests has been "aggressive".

    He asks: "What is the government's case for testing five year olds?"

    Tests are not appropriate for five year old boys and girls, the government should accept and it should accept the will of the parliament he concludes.

  13. Postpublished at 15:34 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

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  14. 'Primary 1 tests skew learning away from play'published at 15:32 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Lib Dem MSP Tavish Scott
    Image caption,

    Lib Dem MSP Tavish Scott

    Lib Dem MSP Tavish Scott tells the chamber that he sat down with P1 teachers on Monday, who suggested they were learning nothing from the tests that they do not already know.

    "Primary 1 tests skew learning away from play."

    Mr Scott accepts that previous assessments were useful for some teachers for diagnostic purposes, but what is in place now is rather different.

    The average time for the tests is an hour per pupils according to teachers, he says.

    Mr Swinney insists the average time is 22 minutes for numeracy and 27 minutes for literacy.

    Mr Scott says we will keep a close eye on that.

  15. Why is the government ignoring the voices of parents and teachers?published at 15:28 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Mr Greer warns against education becoming target driven, rather than focusing on the needs of the indvidual pupil.

    The Green MSP asks why is the government ignoring the voices of parents and teachers.

    He says today gives Mr Swinney the opportunity to take a different tack and listen.

  16. Greens oppose standardised testspublished at 15:25 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Green MSP Ross Greer

    Green MSP Ross Greer highlights his party's long-standing opposition to these types of tests, "and not just for four and five year olds".

    It is international best practice that led the Greens to oppose standardised tests, he explains.

    The very presence of the tests and the impact they have on pupils is a net negative, Mr Greer insists.

    "Teachers are also pressured to teach to the test," regardless of its suitability for the pupil they know, he states.

    The Green MSP highlights concerns that the tests will lead to informal league tables.

  17. Postpublished at 15:23 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

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  18. 'Scrap the tests in Primary One'published at 15:21 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Mr Gray says the experts tell us you cannot have the standardised tests with a play based P1, they are not compatible.

    The Labour MSP concludes saying of the government, "surely they must listen to the teachers" and "scrap the tests in Primary One".

  19. Tests not useful to teachers says Labour MSPpublished at 15:19 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

    Mr Gray says the first minister says P1 assessments will be used to monitor progress nationally, "while the deputy first minister swears to us that they are not".

    He says P1 assessments feel like high-stakes tests to teachers and pupils but cannot be used to look at trends on attainment.

    Mr Gray

    Teachers' views on assessments are clear, the Labour MSP argues.

    Mr Swinney says many teachers do not like the assessments, but many teachers do.

    Mr Gray points to EIS comments on the tests, which one teacher's comments that the results were not useful highlighted.

    He also highlights how some pupils find the tests upsetting, "even to the point of tears".

    Teachers tell us they have lost up to 50 hours of valuable teaching time for the tests, he adds.

  20. Postpublished at 15:18 British Summer Time 19 September 2018

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