Mr Kerr asks about purposeful activity in prison.

Mr McConnell says there are limited opportunities to create a full wrap-around service in terms of education and employment.

"We have to be realistic about the capacity of the prison service to be everything to everybody."

Fundamentally prison is still based around accommodation, he adds.

Tory MSP Liam Kerr highlights that 60% of drug treatment and testing orders are not completed according to the most recent statistics.

Colin McConnell says prison can be a place of safety for some people in some circumstances.

A prison space for a period of time can bring stability, including regular medical attention, he adds.

But broadly the discussion about the positives of keeping people out of custody in a well-structured community setting is the right one, the SPS chief executive argues.

Image source, bbc

Kate Wallace from Victim Support Scotland stresses the importance of the safety of the public.

Ms Wallace highlights that for some community payback orders (CPOs) are already being used for serious offences, like causing death by careless driving.

She says some victims support organisations are calling for CPOs to only be used where there has been no physical or psychological harm.

Colin McConnell from the Scottish Prison Service reiterates the need for substantial financial and other resourcing to introduce the presumption against short sentences.

Initially that will mean having to spend a lot more cash, he says.

"It's almost a spend to save here," adds Mr Maybee.

He points out there might be a need for more money at the start, but in the long term there will be savings.

Reevel Alderson
BBC Scotland Home Affairs correspondent

James Younger has spent a total of 600 hours on community payback orders.

He is now training to be a mentor who helps others understand the value of unpaid work schemes.

"I feel as if I had a lightbulb moment," he said. "So my outlook is now completely different.

"I am on a development worker programme which will help me share my life experience with other boys and help them to move on and do the right thing in theirs."

James said community pay back orders are not a "soft-option".

Read more.

Mr Maybee says CPO non-compliance can be quite willful or it could be that they are having to deal with a whole host of issues, like social security.

The Social Work Scotland representative cites the benefits of engagement and getting people involved in communities.

He says there are high quality mentoring services that make a difference to someone walking through a prison gate, adding that intensive support must be there.

Kate Wallace from Victim Support Scotland says victims do not get any information about CPOs.

Laura Hoskins of Community Justice Scotland says there must be confidence in a robust community sentencing system.

Ms Hoskins argues there is currently a lack of confidence in community provision and she calls for slightly longer funding cycles.

She says the picture varies across the country and there needs to be more investment in community provision.

Mentoring schemes which help prisoners avoid reoffending have been given a cash boost by the Scottish government.

Four programmes which help offenders cope with life outside of prison so they are less likely to commit further crimes will share £3.4m.

The mentors provide one-to-one support and guidance to prison leavers.

The announcement comes as Scottish ministers prepare to present plans to Holyrood to end jail terms of a year or less for most offenders.

Read more.

Labour MSP Daniel Johnson worries that drawing an arbitrary time limit does not address the underlying issues.

Mr Johnson asks if it is not the case that there are insufficient resources directed to those with a short sentence.

Mr McConnell replies that is a hard logic to argue against.

The SPS chief executive agrees it is extraordinarily difficult to focus on those in prison for a matter of weeks.

Laura Hoskins of Community Justice Scotland cites difficulties prisoners face in terms of claiming benefits.

Colin McConnell from the Scottish Prison Service says it is right sheriffs are left unfettered but are given guidance and that is what the presumption does.

Mr McConnell points out that despite the presumption against three months already in place, there are 55 people in prison custody with sentences of this length or less.

That is down to the judgement of the sheriff, he says.

Mr McConnell argues when someone is sent to custody for a short period of time their offending behaviour does not alter very much.

Labour MSP Daniel Johnson says there are recidivism rates of 50% for those given short sentences.

James Maybee, representing Social Work Scotland, concurs saying there is a suggestion that those given a short custodial sentence are twice as likely to reoffend compared to those given a community payback order (CPO).

Kate Wallace from Victim Support Scotland points out there is a difference between reoffending and reconvictions.

The data does not support the premise that CPOs leads to less reoffending, she adds.

Green MSP John Finnie asks about the cash coming to criminal justice social work from the Scottish government.

Mr Maybee says the money is ring-fenced and is protected for criminal justice social work.

Colin McConnell from the Scottish Prison Service says resources of the whole system generally needs careful consideration.

He says the resourcing needed for people with sentences under 12 months is considerable and the "churn is quite considerable" too.

It is right to reflect on whether short sentences are delivering value for money and also whether they are effective, he adds.

Mr McConnell tells MSPs that the SPS is equipped to deal with 7,669 prisoners, but today there are over 8,000 inmates.

SPS has been subject to either flat cash or cash cuts in the last five years, he adds.

Kate Wallace from Victim Support Scotland says victims want to have confidence in the criminal justice system and that means putting enough resources behind community payback orders.

For example there will need to be targeted programmes around stalking, Ms Wallace adds.

Community payback orders must be as well resourced as possible to be as effective as possible, she says.

Restrictions on handing out short prison sentences in Scotland have had little impact on imprisonment and re-offending rates, according to research.

Official figures for 2018 showed those sentenced to short jail terms in Scotland were reconvicted almost twice as often in 12 months than those given community payback orders.

Crest Advisory - the consultants which carried out the research - said in its report that the presumption against short custodial sentences had coincided with a number of positive trends in Scotland since its introduction in February 2011.

But, it added, these trends were "largely consistent" with the previous years - before the presumption against short sentences was introduced.

Read more.

James Maybee, representing Social Work Scotland, points out the budget for social work has remained static.

Mr Maybee points out some resources have been made available to introduce the presumption against short term sentences, but that is catch up.

However he pivots to a footballing analogy saying if you've only got 10 players it doesn't matter how tactically aware you are as a manager, you will inevitably lose the game.

Criminal social work is "running to stand still at the moment" adds Mr Maybee.

He points out 90% of women receiving a custodial sentence were serving under 12 months and if they receive a community sentence more resources will be needed.

Ms Mitchell asks the panelists to comment on the resource implications of the presumption against 12 month sentences.

Laura Hoskins of Community Justice Scotland replies those currently serving short sentences have more needs.

Ms Hoskins adds the resource implications will be greater if they are in the community, but that is not to say that they should not be there.

Image source, Getty Images

Proposals to restrict the use of short prison sentences have been published by the Scottish government.

If passed by MSPs at Holyrood, it will oblige courts to explain why custodial terms of less than a year were given.

Ministers say the current presumption against sentences of three months or less has helped achieve a 19-year low in re-conviction rates.

That is despite research published earlier this month suggesting the change has had little effect.

Read more.